Test caps key to O'Connor move

[mudskipper]

Look I don't doubt the Force could learn a fair bit from the management from the Brumbies. The last few years for us have hardly been inspiring. But I think the Brumbies management is being absolutely self-centred here. The Force really need to keep JO'C to continue to be a successful club. The Brumbies don't need JO'C- he is merely a handy player to have in the squad. Why hurt Australian rugby on the whole for something you don't necessarily need?

I have always thought, and my comments regarding giving the Brumbies one of our locks will verify, that the Australian S14 teams need to work together a bit more for the sake of the Wallabies. Without the Wallabies we really wouldn't have much in the Super 14.

I understand your feelings about the Force needing JOC but the brumbies are building a championship squad and young James O'Connor could play a big role that the future... CEO Fagan will do what he can to sign him. Additionally developing his combination in S14 with Giteau, Mortlock, AAC, Smith and even Josh Holmes... Could help the Wallabies greatly in the next RWC...

JOC will do very well at the Brumbies and set himself up for a long successful and profitable career in world rugby... It’s a rugby program worthy of his talents...

To be fair the Force haven't developed O'Connor just employed him for the last year or so. He brought his talents to the Force... When Giteau left and went west he had been at the Brumbies academy since he was 14-15... The Brumbies were stunned as he and Henjak were our next generation to replace Larkham and Gregan... We got over it...

Its not about equity its about provincial ascendancy in the Southern Hemisphere… The Brumbies want their third Championship...

[pieter blackie]

JOC will stay

[zimeric]

I understand your feelings about the Force needing JOC but the brumbies are building a championship squad and young James O'Connor could play a big role that the future... CEO Fagan will do what he can to sign him. Additionally developing his combination in S14 with Giteau, Mortlock, AAC, Smith and even Josh Holmes... Could help the Wallabies greatly in the next RWC...

JOC will do very well at the Brumbies and set himself up for a long successful and profitable career in world rugby... It’s a rugby program worthy of his talents...

To be fair the Force haven't developed O'Connor just employed him for the last year or so. He brought his talents to the Force... When Giteau left and went west he had been at the Brumbies academy since he was 14-15... The Brumbies were stunned as he and Henjak were our next generation to replace Larkham and Gregan... We got over it...

Its not about equity its about provincial ascendancy in the Southern Hemisphere… The Brumbies want their third Championship...

Ok ill bite.
Tell me how the Force have NOT developed O'Connor? Its a well known fact that O'Connor came west because the other States werent interested as he was "too light" At S14 level if you dont have inherent talent youll never make it, its the fine tuning that is crucial and noone can argue that JOC has not had this at the Force, Muddy your point therefore is "to be fair" total crap.

Despite what many Brumbies fans might think, we are not under any illusions that Giteau was going to be a permanent fixture at the Force, we recruited him because we needed to establish the respect from other States that we didnt have before...

O'Connor is different.... the Force gave him opportunity, development and the chance to play with THE best back line in Australia. If we lose OConnor it will be to the detriment of Australian rugby as he will NoT get the same development anywhere else! You constantly talk up the Brumbies academy but it seems to me that the Brumbies are on the decline and are desperately recruiting to shore up the cracks that are appearing.. (geez youre even trying to get the mummy Larkham back on aussie soil!)

I think the Forces will/need to win their First Championship is just that little bit more than the Brumbies...not hard to work that out!

[mudskipper]

Ok ill bite.
Tell me how the Force have NOT developed O'Connor? Its a well known fact that O'Connor came west because the other States werent interested as he was "too light"

Despite what many Brumbies fans might think, we are not under any illusions that Giteau was going to be a permanent fixture at the Force, we recruited him because we needed to establish the respect from other States that we didnt have before...

O'Connor is different.... the Force gave him opportunity, development and the chance to play with THE best back line in Australia. If we lose OConnor it will be to the detriment of Australian rugby as he will NoT get the same development anywhere else! You constantly talk up the Brumbies academy but it seems to me that the Brumbies are on the decline and are desperately recruiting to shore up the cracks that are appearing.. (geez youre even trying to get the mummy Larkham back on aussie soil!)

I think the Forces will/need to win their First Championship is just that little bit more than the Brumbies...not hard to work that out!

The Force have polished the jewel not unearth him and cut his shape as a player... He has had opportunities and has done well but that hasn't created him... Its also not true that other teams weren't interested after his Australian 7s games... Regarding Giteau, he had said he wanted to return to the Brumbies one day so there was no surprise but also things can change he could have stayed...

James O'Connor isn't the property of the western Force in a few games he'll be a free agent. Additionally he doesn't have to shoulder the Western Forces future at 19 years of age. John Mitchell and Sharpe and CEO Vern Reid are big enough to do that task.

The Force didn’t gift O’Connor anything he competed for a backline spot and earned his wage on the field. Last night is a great example. He leaves no psychological bets behind at the Force…

This year at the Force he as been able to play with in an outstanding backline but next year will be different…

And thanks for your concern about the Brumbies but their doing fine...
I think you may find that the Brumbies released Mark Gerrard for a reason...

[travelling_gerry]

Mark Ella | April 25, 2009
Article from: The Australian
OF all the rising stars in 2009, James O'Connor is one who has played consistently well and deserves further representation with the Wallabies this year to continue his rugby development under Robbie Deans.

O'Connor became one of our youngest Wallabies late last year when he came off the bench and took the field at fullback against Italy in Padua, and in his first full season of Super 14 rugby is proving his value for the Force every week.

Of course, playing outside Wallaby and Force five-eighth Matt Giteau makes life a little easier for O'Connor, 18, but he is gaining in confidence and doesn't sit back waiting for the play to come to him like some.

Playing with the Force, O'Connor appears to be developing faster than Quade Cooper and Kurtley Beale and has much more maturity and certainty which makes it easier to fit into the team.

Beale needs a mentor to help guide him through some tough times and until now he has struggled with the pressure of playing with the Waratahs.

Cooper is a fine player and has benefited from playing alongside Berrick Barnes and the two players interchange positions quite often throughout the game but the Reds' continued lack of success is making it hard for both players to improve.

When Giteau made his debut for the Wallabies in 2002 against England at Twickenham at the tender age of 20, he was considered young but the faith shown by former Wallabies coach Eddie Jones in him has been repaid to Australian rugby a thousand times already. Comparing O'Connor to Giteau, one would have to say the young Queenslander is well ahead of Giteau at this stage of his career, which means O'Connor has plenty to contribute to Australian rugby.

In my column a few weeks back, I indicated the importance of nurturing young stars and not rushing them into the fray before their time, but the benefits that O'Connor can gain by being part of the Wallabies squad will quickly develop his talents. I am not saying O'Connor at this stage of his career should start for the Wallabies, but he should be in the mix, learning from the best and getting to know what it means to be a Wallaby -- which may also help him to better understand his off-field responsibilities.

I know Deans has already targeted O'Connor for the under-20 World Cup in Japan in June, but after that he should be rushed back into the Wallabies squad to learn from senior players and his coach.

Having a player such as O'Connor on the sidelines is important because like his versatile mentor Giteau, he can cover three positions -- five-eighth, inside centre and fullback.

Since the retirement of Chris Latham, the Wallabies have still not settled on a permanent No15 and although I think O'Connor is a better No12, I have no doubt that given time he can easily make the position his.

I would hate to think what would happen if O'Connor is lured away from the Force next year, especially with the pending departure of chief playmaker Giteau to the Brumbies and Drew Mitchell heading for the bright lights of Sydney. Both Giteau and Mitchell are exciting players who bring the crowds through the gate and without them the focus will be on O'Connor because of the way he approaches the game.

There is speculation that O'Connor is considering joining Giteau in Canberra which makes sense in terms of his rugby development, but would leave the Force high and dry with limited scope of securing talented midfield playmakers.

The Waratahs, who have lost the knack of putting themselves in a position to cross the line let alone score tries, should be chasing O'Connor instead of blaming the media for their woes.

O'Connor has lightning speed and can support the likes of Beale or Daniel Halangahu playing at inside centre, particularly by hitting the ball straight, like Tim Horan, or even at fullback where he might consider returning the football in hand rather than automatically kicking it back.

To a certain extent, O'Connor would become the Waratahs' version of Giteau depending, of course, where he played but the NSW backs over the past few years have become leaderless and he can help solve the biggest problem in the game.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...015651,00.html

[mudskipper]

Mark Ella pitching for the Tahs to pitching for the services of James O'Connor....

Rod Kafer covered an interesting point about the Tahs the other night.
Out of all 76 scrums this season the Waratahs have no once passed the ball all the way to the winger... no thats a Coaching problem...

[oxleymoron]

Where are the articles from Greg Martin and John Connolly pushing the reds case for signing Rabbit?

[zimeric]

The Force have polished the jewel not unearth him and cut his shape as a player... He has had opportunities and has done well but that hasn't created him... Its also not true that other teams weren't interested after his Australian 7s games... Regarding Giteau, he had said he wanted to return to the Brumbies one day so there was no surprise but also things can change he could have stayed... *snip

The Force didn’t gift O’Connor anything he competed for a backline spot and earned his wage on the field. Last night is a great example. He leaves no psychological bets behind at the Force…

ahem!
OConnors selfishness last night showed his immaturity.. he still has a lot to learn and there is no reason why the Force can't provide him with that schooling no less than anywhere else!... By "polishing the jewel" dont you mean developing??????????? youre just repeating what ive just said!

[GIGS20]

My tak eon last night's game is that John Mitchell is by lightyears the best coach to devlop a talent as astounding as Rabbit. Jimmy played in various positions around the backline, lining up at 12, 10, 15 and 14 at various times in the game.....and this was not during general play, where he was just caught in a position due to the inability of another player to get there, during set piece!

It was obvious that there was a plan for Jimmy to try his hand around the field and get a feel for running the team against an opponent who were well and truly put to bed by the time the shuffle occured.

My favourite lineup was late in the first half, a scrum on their 40 the backline went
10 Rabbit
11 Drew
12 Spanner
13 Crossy
14 Gits
15 Shep

Not too shabby! Unfortunately, the Lions couldn't figure out how to play it and shoved our scrum off the ball.....It would have been great to see that backline move just once though

Like I said, If Rabbit reckons he's going to get Wallabies caps sitting at the back of the Brumbies kicking ball away (Because that's the way Gits likes to run his team) that's his problem, but I can tell you conclusively, that The Force backline and more specifically the prodigious coaching skills of John Mitchell (The most experienced and capable S14 coach in Australia) will provide him with his ticket to the Starting #12 for the Wallabies.

[mudskipper]

Yer... I would have like to have seen that play... with both Shep and drew standing behind the scrum... pity the forwards didn't hold...

lets hope they do it at the last home game... or we'll never know...

[TommyM]

Does O'Connor want to play 1t 15? He stated earlier in the year that his preferred position was currently 12. I think that's where he should be. Watching him walk from the field next to Cam Shepherd highlighted the fact that he really is not very tall. I think he would be a fantastic Cullen-esque 15, but would give away a lot of height under the high ball to virtually any international 15 I can think of. Mitchell suffers from the same problem at 15, although even he is taller than O'Connor. Having said that, Deans thinks he can play there.... apparently that guy has some idea about rugby

[blueandblack]

pretty sure he said his preferred order is 12, 10 & then 15.

[shasta]

Deans thinks he can play there.... apparently that guy has some idea about rugby

He also gets to say what number you get on your shirt.

[mudskipper]

Our rugby Master from the Shaky Isles knows what he wants... grasshoppers

Wallabies coach Robbie Deans likes a fast creative Fullback. Example Leon MacDonald was his last 15 for the past 10 years… and how many Super Rugby Championships?

See the similarities, both MacDonald and O'Connor are of similar size, dexterity and speed… and you will begin to Comprehend why Deans sees O’Connor as a Fullback playing off Giteau at Flyhalf and combination which could win the 2011 RWC… The stronger that combination the better so the Brumbies are a good option for JOC...

Leon MacDonald 31
Height 1.81cm
Weight 96kgs
DOB. 21/12/77




James O’Connor 18
Height 180cm
Weight 84kg
DOB. 5/7/90

[James]

Robbie Deans seems very keen on JO'C as a fullback. Thus the two Wallabies appearances at 15. JO'C seems to want test caps. We have Cameron Shepherd installed at 15 (when he can kick comfortably again). Who has been doing a lot in the last few games to remind me how great he was. Mudskipper seems to think he will only make the Wallabies if he plays with Giteau. Logic says he's more likely to make the Wallabies if he's on the field. History says that even in a team coming dead last a player can take the responsibility for themselves (Cameron Shepherd/Tai McIsaac in our first year, half of the Reds team in 2007).

The truth of the matter is that the Force would be best for his development if we have someone in their mid-twenties to play 10 and allow O'Connor to focus on playing 12. If he did go to the Brumbies he would be to Giteau what Giteau was to Larkham. Very talented in his own right but still too reliant on the other. Giteau has taken two or three years to break the habit and you can see in his play now that he can handle things a lot better than in his first season at the Force.