An Opinion

[.X.]

In Mid 2005 John Mitchell was announced as Coach of the Western Force. I was a very happy camper, here was a guy with an amazing success rate(86%) with the All Blacks and, I thought, unfairly sacked after losing one game (v Wallabies 2003 RWC).

Since that time he has hold of the reigns of our beloved Western Force for over 3 years now. He has a contract to continue as Coach of the Western Force until 2011.

In 2006, the first season of the Western Force, success was hard to come by. But you can see it, a style of play starts to come through. 1 win, 2 draws and 2 losses that are less then 4 points. I was hoping for a better start, but I have faith.

2007 and the Western Force get some new recruits and the win loss ratio looks a little better. Western Force finally notched up a win at home against the Hurricanes and we handed out a couple of spankings to the Reds and the Cheetahs. But, the Crusaders, Chiefs and the Blues gave us a hiding. 6 Wins, 1 Draw and 6 Losses saw the Force 7th on the ladder at the end of the season, a great improvement for a new side, but still some ways to go.

2008 I think its fair to say we should have stepped up, and didn't, continued off field mis-adventures hurt the start of our season. Wester Force finished up 8th with 7 Wins and 6 Losses. I expected better.

How long do we, as fans, continue to talk up a Coach because he has a great Resume?

In the first couple of seasons here on TWF I continued to back John Mitchell's decision even when it didn't make sense. In 2006 when Matt Henjak failed to fire, yet he was continued to be selected at Half Back. In 2007 when Drew Mitchell was continued to be selected at Fullback in front of Sheps.

In John we trust

I believe in the Force, The Whole Force and nothing but the Force. So help us John.

Anyone who questioned these desiscions was shouted down from the rooftops.

John Mitchell is a former All Blacks Coach. I think he knows what he is doing.

And I used to say it, and believe it too.

I believe that 2008 should have been a year for the Force to step up and didn't. For over 2 years now I believe that the Western Force have had the best backline in Australia. I believe that when the Force is purring on all 8 cylinders that they are able to beat any team that faces them.

But, for some reason its not clicking.

For 3 years now the season starts with a whimper and not a BANG.

I believe that there is a failure somewhere in the system.

The pre-season "vote of no-confidence" I believe was a storm in a tea cup. A management questionnaire that got blown out of proportion.

But something is missing. The Force lack fire, lack mongrel.

I believe that anything short of a finals berth is a failure and John Mitchell needs to go.

Perhaps something is being lost in the translation.

Can a Kiwi coach an Aussie side? Maybe Robbie Deans can do a better job with the Wallabies.

[JediKnight]

Is it the Coach's fault, or the players? The players are the ones who actually front up (only sometimes it seems, unfortunately) against the opposition.

As a fledgeling club, the one thing that really disappoints me is the lack of 'club culture' being created. Yes, it takes time but we don't have the building blocks in place.

I know it's a professional sport now but where is the pride in the jersey....the willingness to shed blood (your own, if necessay) on the field. There's too much talk of haircuts, bromance.....BS, if you ask me.

HTFU & play rugby!!

[Happy]

The force "Engine" has taken a bit to be tuned up and running as well as what we were all hoping yes I'll admit.

We've had a few unfortunate incidents, our quokka airbag went off, our injector Henjack smashed one of our pistons Sare, our cam shaft Cannon got bent and was taken out, a couple of times we blew over the limit and weren't allowed to drive, our fuel sponsor fell in a heap, our turbo charger didn't like our fuel sponsor failing and is leaving, a few components of the engine doesn't like the way the engine management system runs it, our spark plug O'Meara wanted to stay but the other plugs said no

Enough puns - yes I agree with the X that I think we should be in a better position now than we currently are, maybe because it had been so long since any new team had been created form scratch, people found it hard not seeing that new enthusiasm not being turned into overnight success.

But - we will get there!!

[Darren]

You've been reading to many of MudSkippers and SMH posts, Ex.

I also think you need to speak for yourself, as opposed to using the collective 'we' in all your statements as I'm afraid that we (I) disagree with you....

2 games in and one loss (with a bonus point) isn't so bad a start to the season. A maximum of 50% of the teams could have no more than 1 win at this stage (indeed only 4 of 14 have won 2 games so far).

Perhaps asking why the system seems to work well in SA, and worked well in NZ last year but fails in Australia, esp at Subi? 1st year was breaking in, 2nd year conquered SA, 3rd year conquered NZ (whilst still maintaining the record in SA) this year it's the rest of Australia's turn.

Lets see how we do at the weekend and over the next 3 weeks before we start building the gallows...

[Burgs]

Fully respect your opinion Ex, but I think there is a little bit of jumping at shadows going on in some quarters.

I believe a massive part of the problem is a bit as indicated by Jedi in that too many of the players are playing for themselves rather than to make a successful team and let that reflect their individual status.

A player growing up in NSW or Qld would have an aura about pulling on that states jersey, even when it became a franchise jersey shared by players from interstate.
It would be a progression from what many of us may have felt the first time we wore our schools 1st XV jersey or, I can assure you, the first (if not every) time I pulled on a Juniors black & gold.
They are representing their (respective) peers in a position they have aspired to for many years.

Those from interstate playing for any of the four franchises, but especially for the Force, obviously do not have that history or path of progression. They are playing because they are capable enough to play at this level and probably as it is a stepping stone to higher honours that they have missed out on for whatever reason in their home state. Possibly they are playing as a way to get back to their home team.

I would suggest some our founding stars did it for the purest of reasons (especially Sharpe) leaving a comfort zone to develop themselves and benefit Australian Rugby however, the vast majority would have seen an opportunity not available to them, or at least not made apparent to them, in their home state and others saw an opportunity to return to Australia and get a foot in the door again.

I would love to get Welborn, Sharpe, Giteau, Pocock, Longbottom, Haylet-Petty, a non WA born Academy Member, a WA born Academy Member and a player from the State Under 14/15/16's to all be locked in a solo booth and somehow be judged for sincerity, passion and emotion when asked, "What did/does/would pulling on the Western Force jersey (for the first time) and playing for the WF and WA mean to you?"
I think there would be very different levels of conscious and sub-conscious reaction.

How do you suddenly instill that "pride in the jersey" into those who have not experienced the emotional career path within this state?

It is a huge ask to just call on a player’s professionalism to match the passion of a born and bred player. In that images of Phil Waugh and David Croft come to mind, players who have spilt blood all over Sydney, Brisbane and the “Super World” respectively.

I certainly have no 100% answer but I am confident that large crowds, loyal supporters and interaction between the players and those supporters whenever possible is a step in the right direction.
To witness at the Members Bar post match in R2 Ben Castle from overseas and on debut get a similar welcoming cheer as our 40 match hero Tai McIsaac got in R1 was heartening and again a step in the right direction.

I know I have strayed a fair way from your original post now Ex, but I don't believe we can lay all this blame at the feet of the Coach, whoever he is, without apportioning a sizable dollop to the players.

It is interesting to note that you mention our seasons start with a whimper (though I would argue that in SA) in that it would seem at least this season, if not in previous seasons, Mitchell has had minimal input in the pre-season until a couple of weeks prior to kick off. There were mitigating circumstances this year but I get the sense that it was a little "situation normal" as he was said to have been on annual holidays prior to the investigation.

There is a very well worn saying because of media perception and behaviour that "Players win matches, Coaches lose them."
I think it is high time that many in our squad had a damb hard look at themselves in the mirror and have some accountability instead of rhetoric.
And if they are comfortable with mediocrity and excuses looking back at them then I am all for exposing more of our Academy and State players who may not be fully S14 ready but will give you 80 minutes of state pride.

[Em-Forcer]

I think you've hit one of the major issues there, Burgs.

As a light-hearted aside (though many a true word is spoken in jest) - the only time a rugby player should look in the mirror is to see if the bleeding has abated so he can go back on the pitch.

[The Man]

Massive non issue, but u are entitled to an opinion

I think the massive signing was Pocock, he is a player you can build a great time around with Wykes resigning it is a great sign as well

If JOC can stick , all good

[AndyS]

They would be the (younger) players I would pin my hopes on, but it is inevitable that even they will have pulls elsewhere. But I find it interesting that it is always the same few players - Waugh, Croft, Larkham etc - that spring to mind. Was it everyone else too, or do/did they just represent the steel core of the team that stiffens resolve and give the rest inspiration?

I find it odd that it is still seen as the coach's fault too. As I look back over the sequence of event from here, it appears that the first two years were as expected, but last year the problems started. Specifically, they seem to track back to half time at the Blues match where the coach "chucked a few F bombs around" (as I recollect the quote). It wasn't the last time that season as we all know, but if that was the point the players started playing for themselves they didn't really make much of a fist of it. Even more so this year when the coach is supposedly not in charge.

For mine, it is time the players and administration fronted up. Things were seemingly on track when JM was in charge, but seem to be derailing when the players and then committee took over. You can't make the coach responsible if he doesn't have the authority, and I am sure that was THE big motivation when Nucifora went - it had to be seen to be him that was holding the player group back. Right now, it seems quite the opposite to me at the Force...

[mudskipper]

It’s a big call to say as a supporter you’re more passionate and committed to your team than the players, who actually are the team...

These players train and live it everyday of the week throughout the season and preseason... They deal with stress and injury to be your beloved team… It’s a pretty ostentatious statement…when you think about it…

Its clear the Force had a poor preseason and are not all unified. This is obvious when you see players playing as individuals and not communicating to one another on the field…

This is a coaching issue, which is not just Mitchell but the whole coaching team...however the head coach must unify the team and bring out the best in all of them.

Ex…you’re right to question what you see and share your opinion, that is not disloyal, don’t let others tell you what loyalty is…this behavour is cloaked... nevertheless you worry to much, it is early in the season and the addition of Valentine and Castle will I think strengthen the Force's on field results… In reality the Force are a mid table team trying to do better, with a little luck and some astute guidance hopefully they can make the semis in 2009.

Just not this weekend against the Wild Horses…

[AndyS]

No-one had called Ex's loyalty into question, and he has been here more than long enough to have demonstrated that it is not an issue.

With the rest, I kind of see what you are getting at but I am not entirely sure I agree. By logical extension, your position would therefore have to be that both people in a relationship must be equally committed and passionate, as they are both in the "team". And the workers in a company responsible for doing all the day-in, day-out activities must be so much more passionate and committed than the bloke who owns the company.

Professional players train and stress and get injured because they love rugby, not necessarily the team. I have no doubt that there are players who are entirely committed to the cause and some names were floated, but a great many will simply view it as a means to ply their trade. They may be entirely professional and applied in practice, but passionate and committed? Different perhaps at the amateur level, but professionals in general will not invest that much.

So tell me - if they somehow decided move the Brumbies to Melbourne, would all the players quit the game and retire in protest? By comparison, how would the supporters react - would they just shrug their shoulders, grumble about the extra travel and then send in their subscriptions? My opinion is that it is the supporters that are the more passionate and committed to the team, as they see the team as a representative entity. It is why they commit their own hard earned brass and leisure time to it, whereas the players expect remuneration for their time. It is not a criticism of the players, it would happen even if the player were a supporter of the team growing up; it is simply the difference between something being an enthusiasm or hobby, and something being a job.

Of course, I might be wrong. Perhaps having helped build the club and played in three quarters of their games, Gits will pine for the Force next year.

[Burgs]

Not sure where you have plucked the supporter v player scenario from mud but you could quite easily build a case that someone who pays to watch a team and regularly drives half the state or flies from interstate to support their team through thick and thin may well have more passion and even commitment to their team than someone who is being paid to do their job and is willing to follow their luck to other teams for whatever reason.
And you are also pulling imaginary meanings if you think any of us are questioning Ex's loyalty to the Force in expressing his opinion. Disagreeing and calling him disloyal are two entirely different things and I'm sure he knows the difference.
"nevertheless you worry to much" is no more a message than any of us have reflected to him so if you think we are out of line then include yourself as guilty as charged.

[James]

I think it's pretty soon to judge any/all of the ramifications of whats going on in the club. I mean we had just as poor a start to last season. This road trip will probably be the big decider. I think if we can't take at least 6 points on the road things will be looking a bit grim. But a couple of things to bear in mind-

a) The backline has been pretty mixed up- I mean the Blues game was the first time some of the guys had any real game time together and you can't expect them to gel brilliantly under conditions like that and thats not something we can easily change- Crossy had a baby on the way alongside his and Giteau's restings. Plus we had halfbacks out. Then the change sees a new 9, new 12, new winger and the other winger moves to fullback. Hardly good for forming combinations/reestablishing an understanding.

b) We didn't have many preseasons game. 2 was probably the least of all S14 teams. Some had 4. Maybe later on in the season we will be less fatigued and they will start to drop. But you could see against the Blues and to a point against the Cheetahs that the players weren't used to it. More game time would sharpen up our set-pieces a lot I'd think.

c) Other teams have played just as badly as we have. Look at the Chiefs- two from two losses. The Brumbies may have 2 from 2 wins but their were wire-edgers against the Highlanders and a depleted Crusaders they were easy favourites in both. But a win is a win is a win and we've actually only lost one. If what is spouted in the media was true we'd have lost both by 50 points.

Give it time. Then make a judgement. Much less stressful.