Ben Castle the goods.......opinion from the Waikato

[James]

I think the NH concentrate on their props a bit more, probably a wet weather thing more than anything. Nicer weather in Aus allows for a more passing running backs style of rugby with less scrums due to handling errors.

Wallabies spend to much time working out which ex rugby league back will be the next superstar convert. League don't seem to have the prop type players to convert due to it being a faster passing style game. Yeah I know there are some big roosters playing it but I think they'd be more the breakaway, number 8 style big men.

And Gayfl well hardly think you could get a waterboy from their stocks.

Yeah the ball see more hands in the Super 14 because its easier to run thus its harder to get from ruck to ruck as apposed to running it up the forwards or kicking it and slowly trudging to the line-out. So your props get leaner and leaner to actually make a difference and then bam you go up to where running the ball is harder and the opposition is scrum-hardened and things come a bit unglued.

I say use Castle off the bench. Real scrum problems only really start up when the front row is getting tired so he can come on and try to put in a monster 20 minutes.

[joondalup dave]

having said that the scrums are more comabtive in the earlier parts of the game. a fresh but weaker scrummager can cope later in the peice.

[Burgs]

what did having noriega or omar hassan in australian rugby do to bring through young players...

Probably quite a bit by showing how it was done however, not as much as Toppo Rodriguez did in his 26 Tests for his adopted country.
His effect is still ebbing through today, twenty two years after his last Test.

[James]

having said that the scrums are more comabtive in the earlier parts of the game. a fresh but weaker scrummager can cope later in the peice.

Can cope yes but you want an impact. You want someone to turn the flow of the game if you are even bothering to bring them on. I think Takiari and AJ are the 60 minute players who need a 20 minute lump to finish off the job.

It's what Australian rugby should do. Develop a player who is specifically trained to come in at the 60 minute mark and try to turn the tide. I nominate Salesi Ma'afu.

[joondalup dave]

Probably quite a bit by showing how it was done however, not as much as Toppo Rodriguez did in his 26 Tests for his adopted country.
His effect is still ebbing through today, twenty two years after his last Test.

well we dont use the bajada here, we dont scrummage with front on shoulders , our binds aren't argentinian. the thing is that at least if we brought over fairbrother he would be eligible to play for aust.

castle cant. he has already played for the junior all blacks.

my feeling was that s14 is the nursury of test football. i disagree with braid by the way this is not a force thing.

[Burgs]

I disagree with Braid and the concept too, that is not the argument, the original point was around Castle's ability to help our existing Props, compared to an imported expert Coach.
Clearly Toppo influenced a generation of Props and inspired youth right up to current senior players to follow in his playing position.
It is possible to learn from emulating others both from the sideline and from sharing the field.

[joondalup dave]

that is true but with tight head there is only one spot so for aj and troy watching from the bench and the grandstand will not help them.

Scrummaging is about solving problems , if they had a coach like woodman he could help them work through them. bringing in castle is saying to those guys we give up ,we cant help you so we will replace you.

the reason hayman is so good is not because they brought in foreigners to fix there scrum but because they have the best scrum coach in the world helping them develop. i dont of any foreign props in new zealand since yates.

[AndyS]

Of course it doesn't help local players. That was exactly the reason many here didn't (and probably still don't) like the idea of marquee signings. In fact, the tighthead position was probably the most common position warned about, especially given the situation in France. But then there were many who thought it would be good for rugby and that is the way the ARU went. Heaven forfend they didn't actually think it through!

But feel free - with only four teams from which to pick the Wallabies squad and no other real development path, in what position is Australia so strong that they can afford to displace local players? If the answer is none, then there is no point railing against Castle, it is the ARU that should be fielding the criticism.

Teams are always going to pick players that fill gaps in their team. If they had good coverage for a position, why would they pay a premium for an expat player? Folk may question whether Castle is actually good, but many have also said that the Force has the weakest scrum in the S14 so by definition he must have something to offer. But maybe the Force should just have poached a first or second string player from one of the other provinces...no-one ever minds that.

[waratahjesus]

i dont mind picking up an overseas player, but like braid, if castle is getting payed better than average to come here. you can argue that that money could develop two or more juniors and keep them from going to league or overseas to earn a living!

[BDAVEY]

Castle will help develop Troys and AJ techniques etc thats if he any good. Be good to see him train up Pek and Kieren to become good scrumagers. Must be tough on them though. I think Castle will be used as a last 1/4 man as I dont think he will be able to keep up with the pace

[waratahjesus]

he doesnt seem to have a cv that would suggest he is any better than what is in this country already though!

if going to france for a season has turned him into a superman, maybe the ARU should invest in an overseas team and send people there for a season or two to help them develop!

[.X.]

maybe the ARU should invest in an overseas team and send people there for a season or two to help them develop!

but isnt that exactly what they did with Rodzilla?

[waratahjesus]

nah, i think they payed for rodzilla to leave the country! knock kneed and unfit! three reds coaches have tried to motivate him and he hasnt got it, i dont think he will make it back to the top

[.X.]

In all fairness WJ - Rod was the biggest Prop Australia had ever produced, he arrived on the "scene" when Australia were begging for Props with size and technique. And in Queensland he had the makings of a cult following - you honestly think that the ARU just gave up on him after 4(?) Tests, or they said - go to Europe son, learn some technique and come back in time for 2011 and we have the makings of an excellent scrum base.

[waratahjesus]

witht he number of props in australia do you think the aru would want him to go and not be eligable by there own rules to play for his country if they believed in him?

i get what your saying, but basically by going to europe, rodders is either a)unwanted by any of the four teams in australia or b)chasing cash there really isnt an option c. if he was respected in the australian rugby community the force could have got him or event he brumbies, but even queensland didnt seem to fight for him, maybe TOCC would be the best person to explain why he went