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Thread: Calls to review dangerous dog list

  1. #1
    Champion Lonzy's Avatar
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    Calls to review dangerous dog list

    So, because of recent events people are calling for a review on the dangeorous dogs list. Current dogs are listed below. I am just wondering what you guys think about this? and whether you think a dog bad because of it genetics or whether it is bad due to environment influences? I also want to know how you feel about the consequences of dog attacks in regards to the dog and its owner? also if you had/have a dog what would you do if it showed signs of aggression?

    I personally believe that its environmental, if the dog isn't treated properly it is going to turn out more submisive then aggressive, some dogs that are treated a little to well may be the big risk, if they want something and are used to getting it they will just take it esp with food. It all comes down to training if you train your dog well theoratically speaking it should behave well. I agree with putting dogs down if they attack some one that being an innocent person, not someone who has broken into your house or is purposely harming you or your dog. In other cases they dog should be praise for protecting its property and family. In regards to bites depending on the situation if it was not provoced and showed other signs of aggresion towards people perhaps putting it down for the safety of your family and the community would be best. I however there is a reaso for it biting I would be a little more understanding. With regards to owners i think they should beheld accountable for attaks other then those where the dog isn't protecting its family or property. If you can't train a dog properly you probably shouldn't have one ... think about it! The one time my dog ever freaked me out was when there was some one trying to get over our back fence (we back onto Read Hwy) I had never seen her like that ever! all the hair was up on her back, barking like crazy and it wasn't a some has just pulled up out the front bark it was a if you come near this house I will kill you bark! and this left her in a really high state of anxiety ears up prancing around the perimetre on her toes hair still up onher back ... after I heard the guy leave, he wasn't being really quite about it (how dare he tell my dog to shut the **** up!) as soon I went out to see her she was relaxed ears dropped down and she started doing her little thank god you here spill! any ways even though she woke me up I felt pretty safe! But if she randomly attacked some one I'd be like I love you but you have to go. The only time she has bit us is when weve een playing with her and her tug toy when we win she wants to go again so she lunges for it but sometimes she will accidently get a finger aswell ... not hard i think she sees it coming but can't stop her self!!! And in regards to have a restricted dog list ... I don't think that helps, most dog attacks are by your comon dogs like cattle dog, kelpie etc its all they way you bring them up! also I should mention my little baby is actually a big mastiff x ridgeback ... and by big i mean average size ... about the size of a kelpie/labradore!

    RESTRICTED

    dogo Argentino

    (Argentinian Fighting Dog)

    Breed History

    One of the few breeds developed in South America, the Dogo Argentino is the result of a breeding programme undertaken in the 1920s by an Argentinian breeder, Dr. Antonio Nores Martinez, to produce a puma and jaguar hunter.



    Key Facts

    First use: Game hunting, dog fighting.

    Use today: Companion.

    Life expectancy: 10-11 years.

    Weight range: 36-45 kg.

    Height range: 61-69 cm.






    RESTRICTED

    filo Brasileiro

    (Brazilian Mastiff / Brazilian Fighting Dog)

    Breed History

    One of Brazil's two native breeds (the other one being the rare Brazilian Tracker), this powerful mastiff was developed from Spanish and Portuguese mastiffs and Bloodhounds in order to track and control livestock and large game.



    Key Facts

    First use: Tracking, large game hunting.

    Use today: Companion, security.

    Life expectancy: 9-11 years.

    Weight range: 41-50 kg.

    Height range: 61-76 cm.






    RESTRICTED

    Tosa Inu

    (Tosa Fighting Dog / Japanese Fighting Dog)

    Breed History

    Initially bred in Japan's Kochi Prefecture, from crosses between native Shikoku fighting dogs and imported mastiffs, Great Danes, bulldogs, and bull terriers, this breed was once called the Japanese Mastiff.



    Key Facts

    First use: Dog fighting.

    Use today: Companion.

    Life expectancy: 9-11 years.

    Weight range: 89.5-90.5 kg.

    Height range: 62-65 cm.






    RESTRICTED

    American Pit Bull Terrier

    (Pit Bull Terrier, American Pit Bull)

    Breed History

    Throughout the World dogs have, at one time or another, been bred to fight. This breed descends from the Staffordshire Bull Terrier crossed with other fighting dogs, including the extinct fighting Bulldog.



    Key Facts

    First use: Dog fighting.

    Use today: Companion.

    Life expectancy: 12 years.

    Weight range: 14-36 kg.

    Height range: 46-56 cm.

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  2. #2
    Legend Contributor blueandblack's Avatar
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    all fighting dogs. surprise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonzy View Post
    ....

    Tosa Inu

    (Tosa Fighting Dog / Japanese Fighting Dog)
    ...

    interesting name. is this dog designed to be thrown?

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  3. #3
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    Nah, they leave that for dwarves....

    My opinion is a little as for firearms.
    Firearms don't kill people, people responsible for them do however, I don't see any need for most people to possess firearms just because they may want to. And if they do, they don't need a hand cannon or elephant bazooka.

    Same with dogs, many people shouldn't even have dogs in the environment they live in however, those that do should be accountable for the dogs' actions (public safety) and have an appropriate dog, even if they may prefer something bigger or "tougher".

    I think if you broke down your "most dog attacks" stat into those having a bite protecting their turf and doing their job and those in unprovoked, uncontrolled vicious attacks that put people in hospital and make the news, then the restricted listings would be pretty accurate Lonz.

    I have literally grown up with both Australian Cattle Dogs (Blue Heeler/Red Heeler, both are ACD's) and Kelpies and, having seen many of our ACD pups spread around the globe, know that with these breeds it is totally in the early handling (or imprinting) of the dogs for the first year. I would totally trust an ACD or Kelpie that I have raised with any child. As soon as you cross in a Bull Terrier, as we once did, there is always a risk factor, even with the same upbringing.

    So, in answer to one of your questions, I think it is a mixture of environment and genetics, depending on your breed.

    I think perhaps the biggest fault is emotion, in that people persist with some individual dogs even though they know they are bad, just hoping the worst never happens.

    Added: Just read another question which ties into my last statement, yes I have dispossed of dogs that have shown signs (and only signs, no human incident) of inappropriate aggression.
    I have also rewarded dogs for protecting my ute contents from wandering fingers in the main street of Meekatharra...

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  4. #4
    Legend Contributor brokendown gunfighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueandblack View Post
    all fighting dogs. surprise.




    interesting name. is this dog designed to be thrown?
    I think this is a new breed of Quokka, the Brown Fava tosa Inu

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    Last edited by brokendown gunfighter; 09-01-09 at 14:04. Reason: spelling

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    Veteran zimeric's Avatar
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    Ive had this debate with someone else on another forum and i think my point of view is pretty sane.
    So anyways the way i see it: these breeds have a higher potential for aggression regardless of their training and that is why they are restricted.
    My family has had bull Mastif's and they were the nicest dogs, however as kids we were told to respect them and their space as they had the potential to hurt even if they were not intending to.

    My point is that noone doubts that dogs can be trained to be passive and that any dog can be aggressive but the figures speak for themselves.. you dont hear of Poodles and foxies killing people because it very rarely happens regardless of their owner training or environment. However you constantly hear of maulings by Pitbulls, Rotti's and Bull mastif/terriers etc because they have a higher propensity for aggresive behavior.

    Im sorry if this offends anyone but i firmly believe that large dogs do not belong in urban area's unless they have a Large space in which to live. Walking your dog once a day is not sufficient!

    IMHO The list above should also include
    Staffi Bull terriers
    Bull Terriers
    Pincers
    Rottweilers
    Bull Mastiff
    Husky's
    Presa Canario's
    Wolf/Dingo & Hybrids...

    heres some light reading to press my point http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html

    lets see the @## hit the fan now hehe...


    just my opinion

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    Veteran laura's Avatar
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    I agree with Zim saying that walking a dog once a day is not enough. Dog's were (and still are) used for fighting and hunting, and with a history like that its understandable that dogs shouldn't be kept caged up in someone's handbag or apartment. Yes certain dogs can live in that space but its not natural, the same way its not natural for a person to live in a 1m square place. The only people who live in such environments are those who society punish, in jails, so why should a dog who has done nothing wrong be subjected to the same punishment?

    Also agree with the environment factor, as to why dogs are agressive. If it was genetics then all dogs descendant of fighting or hunting dogs would be aggressive. Bulldogs were used for fighting yet they are hardly on the list of most agressive dogs and its really only after they have been tormented or mis-treated that they will be aggressive. As Burgs said, I think its up to the owners, they are the ones who have the ability to teach dogs and train them. Like parents, whose responsibility it is to teach a child the difference between right and wrong, and then if that child misbehaves the parents are usually the ones who get the blaim for not appropriately raising thier child. I fail to see how dogs are any different, they don't have the higher brain power or whatever, like humans do so how can they be the ones to know what's right or wrong behaviour if no-one educates them, they're hardly going to read it in a book or watch the news.

    If a dog shows signs of being viscous then something needs to be done. In the same way that if a juvenile is committing crimes they are locked up in the hope of stopping them from re-offending. Then if they do re-offend they are punished with a harsher penalty. As rough as its sounds dogs should be treated with a similar mind-set, if they show signs of aggression, buy a muzzle and yell at them so they know its wrong. If they start to get worse or continue try something else; move them to a bigger property, have them steralised (steralised dogs are less aggressive) or have them dealt with accordingly.

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    What's there to smote AH

    At least say what part of my opinion, based on a life of breeding experience, you disagree with???

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    Legend Contributor brokendown gunfighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
    What's there to smote AH

    At least say what part of my opinion, based on a life of breeding experience, you disagree with???
    you stud, Burgs

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    It gets very tiring

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    Legend Contributor Thequeerone's Avatar
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    Tibetan monks feed some tigers cooked meat in the belief that if they don't get a taste for blood then the tigers will be easier to handle (this monastery is a tourist attraction now !).

    Always thought that if a dog bites once then you put it down - anything even another dog (Da's family were sheep farmers and we nearly put a family pet puppy down once as we had told him he had biten a friend - so he rang her Da and found out he had only jumped up and nipped at her skirt - no teeth marks - Da put the fear of God into us cause we were very fond of the dog)

    - maybe that idea or something similar should be the public consensus as to when to put down a dog - the babysitter in this instance seemed to think the dogs would be ok with these children and did her best to rescue the children - but...

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    Veteran Swee_82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burgs View Post
    What's there to smote AH

    At least say what part of my opinion, based on a life of breeding experience, you disagree with???
    I can only guess the smote was related to your thoughts on gun-control, which seemed pretty reasonable to my yuppie sensitivities, so I'd have thought would pass msuter with most people.

    On the question at hand, I don't know if a dog's viciousness is built in at a genetic level or if it is environment related. I think it probably comes down to the individual dog. Growing up, we had many dogs over the years, mostly placcid and some not so, so environment can't be the whole of the equation.
    I was bitten (pretty aggressively- lots of stiches to the face required etc) by our family dog when I was quite young. I'm glad I was probably too young to have formed any memory of it, so I grew up with dogs after that and was never scared of them. The dog that bit me was a cross-breed, but as far as I know, none of the breeds involved were identified as 'dangerous'. I guess my point is that breed isn't a genological destiny (though I can't say how much it MIGHT be affected by it).

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    Senior Player Contributor Cowboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swee_82 View Post
    I don't know if a dog's viciousness is built in at a genetic level or if it is environment related.
    There is a good concept in animal genetics on this topic
    Phenotype (what we see) = Genotype (genetic traits) X Environment

    Basically it means that in this case aggression level is partly both genetic and upbringing, and also explains that different dogs within a breed will respond to the same upbringing with a different level of aggression.

    Personally I think it is very much like firearms, responsibility is in the hands of the owner.

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    (formerly known as Coach) Your Humble Servant Darren's Avatar
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    which seemed pretty reasonable to my yuppie sensitivities
    the 'y' in yuppie stands for 'young' doesn't it?

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    Veteran Swee_82's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach View Post
    the 'y' in yuppie stands for 'young' doesn't it?
    something like that.... and until I crack 30, I'm holding onto the title (if you'll excuse the expression) like a rabid dog.

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