No more big $$ for Super 14 defectors to UK

[KenyaQuin]

English rugby ponders squad, salary cuts
January 5, 2009 - 5:56AM

The luring of Super 14 rugby players to the English Premiership could be on the decline if plans to reduce the size of a club's squad and salary cap come into force.

A report in the London Sunday Telegraph said Premier Rugby, the umbrella body for England's leading 12 clubs will meet later this month to discuss the changes.

One suggestion is to limit the size of Premiership squads to between 35 to 40 players, with 38 the number most likely to win approval.

If this restriction was already in place, Bath would be...

Read More here.

[thunderchicken9]

I wonder if the French sides are facing the same situation... For the Southern Hemisphere nations, this could be a positive thing - it will be interesting to see how it all plays out - I mean, will the Euros still poach the South's big names but sign fewer Southerners overall, or will economics dictate that they spend all their money closer to home? If teams limit the number of players, it could hurt American rugby, as there aren't any real US or Canadian "superstars." If these players can't play professionally in Europe or the Southern Hemisphere, it's back to club rugby- which doesn't normally pay the bills.. I think overseas professional experience is vital to the growth of the game here, so I hope this doesn't signal a dramatic downsizing..

[welshrugbyfan]

I didn't think the Guinness Premiership had poached too many Super 14 or NRL players anyway. I think they're all going to the French Top 14 comp.

I think the global financial crisis will impact on everything including our great game. The RBS bank is in the financial shitter and they are the main sponsor of the upcoming six nations comp.

[TOCC]

Everyone can figure it out themselves from the list below, but IMO the Guiness Premiership isnt the biggest threat in Europe. Magners League and T14 especially are big threats, Italy is also a big threat. Unlike the other comps the Italian teams dont target Wallabies, they target the younger and cheaper players, which is only going to become worse and more evident when they reformat there competition.

Magners League
David Lyons (Scarlets)
Chris Whitaker (Leinster)
Rocky Elsom (Leinster)
Clinton Shifcofske (Ulster)

Guiness Premiership
Shaune Berne(Bath)
Justin Harrison(Bath)
Peter Hewat(London Irish)
Lachlan Mitchell(London Wasps)
Ben Jacobs(Saracens)
Chris Latham(Worcester)

Top 14
Rodney Blake(Bayone)
Manuel Edmonds(Bayone)
Lachlan McKay(Brive)
Leiataua Tomiki(Castres Olympique)
Steve Kefu(Castres Olympique)
Brock James(Clermont Auvergne)
Ben Coutts(Stade Montois)
Matt Henjak(Toulon)
Mafi Kefu(Toulon)

Top 14-NRL players
Sonnybill Williams(Toulon)
Luke Rooney(Toulon)
Mark Gasnier(Stde Francais)
Craig Gower(Bayone)

Super10-Italy
Lloyd Johannson(Viadana)
Cameron Treloar(Calvisano)
Luke Mclean(Calvisano)
Winston Mafi(Calvisano)
Mark Bartholomeusz(Padova)

[James]

Things are looking a lot safer I think than the media makes it out. The big three things in our favour are:

a) Financial Crisis meaning less money to make big pay outs for players.
b) Toulon's abominable performance proving that expensive players don't always bring results has hopefully made people second guess big signings.
c) The Lions tour in 2013. I've said a couple of times Wallabies and fringe Wallabies now have four years to cement a spot in order to play in a once in a lifetime opportunity. Most of them won't want to risk going overseas and losing that chance.

[Burgs]

I assume you have scoured all of the Clubs for this list of Aussies,TOCC?
Was a few more than this when I did it a couple of years ago so may have dropped off. Including all SH there was over 100 playing in Europe at that time.

Of you above list, probably only the following would potentially get considered for a contract in a hypothetical new 2010 Melbourne franchise, so it probably isn't all that bad, though if we already had five teams most would still be in Australia:

Rocky Elsom
Lachlan Mitchell
Ben Jacobs
Rodney Blake
Lachlan McKay
Leiataua Tomiki
Brock James
Ben Coutts
Matt Henjak
Mafi Kefu
Lloyd Johannson
Cameron Treloar
Winston Mafi

[GIGS20]

Can't argue with that Burgs. As a matter of fact, I reckon you've probably been a bit generous. I can't see Lachie and Henners coming back to Aussie Rugby too soon! there are probably some others who would be well out on the fringes.

It'd be really interesting to see how Blake goes after a few years getting shown how to play prop well. He certainly has everything apart from the commitment!

[TOCC]

I assume you have scoured all of the Clubs for this list of Aussies,TOCC?
Was a few more than this when I did it a couple of years ago so may have dropped off. Including all SH there was over 100 playing in Europe at that time.

Of you above list, probably only the following would potentially get considered for a contract in a hypothetical new 2010 Melbourne franchise, so it probably isn't all that bad, though if we already had five teams most would still be in Australia:

Rocky Elsom
Lachlan Mitchell
Ben Jacobs
Rodney Blake
Lachlan McKay
Leiataua Tomiki
Brock James
Ben Coutts
Matt Henjak
Mafi Kefu
Lloyd Johannson
Cameron Treloar
Winston Mafi

yeah pretty much just checked the list of players, probably missed a few.

[Burgs]

[James]

Can't argue with that Burgs. As a matter of fact, I reckon you've probably been a bit generous. I can't see Lachie and Henners coming back to Aussie Rugby too soon! there are probably some others who would be well out on the fringes.

It'd be really interesting to see how Blake goes after a few years getting shown how to play prop well. He certainly has everything apart from the commitment!

What did Lachie Mitchell do?

I think we'd need until at least 2011 until the the depth is back Australian rugby to support another team.

[AndyS]

I'm not sure I entirely agree with that. Just one year of ARC found a number of players that had been languishing in club rugby. I suspect that, given the chance, there are more than a few that could be very useful S14 players. However, what a fifth team would do is put the talent identification and recruiting programs at all the teams under pressure because those players aren't on display any more.

[welshrugbyfan]

Can't forget Douggie Howlett for Munster.

Watched an absolute cracker of a game last night between Bath and Leicester Tigers. Derick Hougaard playing at 10 for Leicester and Butch James at 10 for Bath.

What an awesome game especially for the Tigers fans who watched their team claw their way back from a sure defeat to win by two points in the end. A great battle of the two South African fly halves.

Big Justin Harrison playing for Bath as well. How can anyone not like this sport?

Thanks again Setanta Sports.

[TOCC]

Can't forget Douggie Howlett for Munster.

Watched an absolute cracker of a game last night between Bath and Leicester Tigers. Derick Hougaard playing at 10 for Leicester and Butch James at 10 for Bath.

What an awesome game especially for the Tigers fans who watched their team claw their way back from a sure defeat to win by two points in the end. A great battle of the two South African fly halves.

Big Justin Harrison playing for Bath as well. How can anyone not like this sport?

Thanks again Setanta Sports.

ahh the topic is about australian players overseas.. the list would be massive if we included south african, kiwi, argentina and pacific islanders.

What did Lachie Mitchell do?

I think we'd need until at least 2011 until the the depth is back Australian rugby to support another team.

the depth for a 4th side wasnt there either, its only being in the last season or two that the australian super14 sides have recovered from the conception of the Force.

The depth to create a Super14 side out of just club players will never be there, its just a reality of life, if players are that good they will either go overseas or get picked up by NRL clubs.

What needs to happen if another S14 side is created, is something similar to how the AFL is introducing a side to the Gold Coast.
1. Give the side at least 18months to prepare for its first match, in which time the new side can sign 15-20 juniors and play them in the Sydney/Brisbane competition.
2. Allow the team to sign 50% foreign players for the first year, 40% 2nd year and so forth dropping down until it is the same as other teams.
3. Make allowances for a larger junior academy for the first 4 years.

This IMO will allow the team to be competitive from the get-go, also by allowing foreign players in the side it will minimise the risk of massive poaching raids on the other Aussie S14 sides. A larger junior academy program for the first few years will also aid the side in sucession planning once they are unable to select as many foreign players.

[welshrugbyfan]

ahh the topic is about australian players overseas.. the list would be massive if we included south african, kiwi, argentina and pacific islanders.

Hey you put SBW in your list.

[jargan83]

Hey you put SBW in your list.

I assume he did that as SBW was playing for an Australian NRL club
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