Why was the ARC canned?

[Swee_82]

NTT, I haven't seen the figures so i can't be sure, but I'd think it's safe to say that RugbyWA would have received some funding from the ARU, the figures quoted there are the loans/grants that were offered to guarantee no union recorded a loss due to the ARC.
So I'm guess I'm saying RugbyWA would have got money (part of the $5 Million total ARU money to them that year) they just didn't have to go running cap in hand looking for more.

[NTT]

NSW also generates the biggest amount of money for the ARU. The ARU get their money from TV rights and the Wallabies then distribute it to member unions. NSW need money to operate, after all 60% of Australia’s professional players hail from NSW (source). The analogy of Federal and State governments is fairly apt, we generate the money for the ARU and calling it a grant does not make it a handout.

You try and run a state union without money from TV rights and see how many magic fuel pills you need to sell to turn a profit.
What you call a grant I'd call an operating expense. True they were bailed out in 2000, I'm sure you'd be aware that they repaid the $4.5m in 2003 at which time NSWRU regained control of it's operations from the ARU (Source)

so you'd argue that compensation was unfair? The ARC was pushed through at the last minute, Shute Shield was already running and clubs were facing real losses that they could not have planned for.

that's why they call us the heartland

I honestly don't know, feel free to enlighten me here.

of course self preservation plays a big part, however I think the ARC was ultimately in the interests of NSW Rugby. My team did win the comp after all.

There were rumours of one kicking and screaming but the vast majority came on boarrd before the comp kicked off.

mine too

to an extent, I'm sure that Horne would have shone in the Shute Shield and moved up through the traditional channells had the ARC not been there. I don't know so much abo the others.

100%

I'm just not seeing any evidence to plant the blame solely on NSW. Sure it's the cool thing to do on a western force site, but in my opinion we were on board with the comp.

i thank you for your efforts in this debate topic. im happy to agree on some points and disagree on others as you went to the effort of researching your argument (even though it was sourced from the nswru website) and giving more information on the points you were discussing. as for facts and figures most of this thread has been based on, well not much really except assumptions all round.

[NTT]

NTT, I haven't seen the figures so i can't be sure, but I'd think it's safe to say that RugbyWA would have received some funding from the ARU, the figures quoted there are the loans/grants that were offered to guarantee no union recorded a loss due to the ARC.
So I'm guess I'm saying RugbyWA would have got money (part of the $5 Million total ARU money to them that year) they just didn't have to go running cap in hand looking for more.

im not going to speculate on how much rugbywa received in ARC funding like me mate waratahjesus has been. it is a given that rugbywa received aru money to cover some ARC costs. what i was disputing with waratahjesus is that it wasnt the $7mil he assumed and club rugby development money was generated by rugbywa and not an aru handout.

[waratahjesus]

your right about the expert part! if someone knows, why cant they post a source for the figures?

or is this one of those trust me i know things?

the way i read those figures is that nsw provide 60% of the players in the country and only recieved 42.3 percent of the money involved, especially when the ARC displaced the nsw club comp and lost several local clubs revenue that needed to be refunded in some way!

so out of the two million outlayed by RugbyWA for the spirit, and its 2 million, you have just said that havnt you? did the spirit make more than two million dollars to turn a profit during the ARC or was the two million written off by the force?

cos that is 133,333.33 spectators paying full adult admission to your home games! or 22,222.22 jerseys! (figures based on price at fleet home games!)

[Swee_82]

NSWRU and QRU figures are in thier annual reports. Haven't looked for the VRUs

[NTT]

as for the way forward with a national comp, well if super 14 expansion goes ahead to a 26 week competition and 40 odd player squads (which i hope it does) then there would be sufficient high level rugby for the top 160 odd players in australia to press for wallaby selection. 10 players in each position would provide adequate depth for the wallabies. as this proposals season would overlap with the test season i think there wouldnt be enough players available to support a second tier national comp. with a 26 week super 14, the test season and situation where every team is reliant on a full 40 man squad i cant really see the need to implement a new national comp to support the super 14. we'd be spreading playing resources and aru resources too thin to make it work.
if the super 14 does expand this way then the logical step should be looking at establishing some sort of U/20s comp to develop talent ready to step into super14.
the nrls toyota cup is an example id be looking at. have an U/20s side travel with the senior team and play an U/20s super14.
then again i dont really care what sort of tournament is set up as long as its set up properly (with tv deals and major sponsorships) runs at a time when it doesnt clash with anything that could lessen the audience, includes wa and has affordable ticket prices.
oh and affordable beer prices

[NTT]

so out of the two million outlayed by RugbyWA for the spirit, and its 2 million, you have just said that havnt you? did the spirit make more than two million dollars to turn a profit during the ARC or was the two million written off by the force?

i stated that rugbywa put $2mil of its own cash into the wa club rugby system and stated that i cant speculate on what the funding for the ARC from the aru that rugbywa rreceived was.
i havent looked at a rugbywa annual report since about november last year so forgive me if i cant remember exact figures for every expenditure incurred but one of the ones i most definitely remember is that rugbywa put $2mil of its own cash into CLUB rugby.
i dont care if you trust me or not because theres no way i can post you a link to a report on paper.

[waratahjesus]

i don't think an under 20's would work, i think you hit the nail on the head when you said resources would be spread to thin!

perth has spread the resources (and im not force bashing, it has had an effect on other unions, we needed to expand and i dont have a problem with this but i think the aru underestimated how long it would take for more players to come through!)

i would be happier if we sent all the rugby development boys to the under 20's league comp for a couple of years to learn how to tackle and train then take back or recruit the ones that come through well! sure you will loose some players, but league does toughen people up some and provide good front on defence (berrick is testiment to that)

but if there is 26 weeks of super rugby, there isnt really a need or the revenue to have another crack at an ARC

[travelling_gerry]

According to a thread eslewhere here the ARU did not put any money into RWA for the ARC.

[waratahjesus]

i stated that rugbywa put $2mil of its own cash into the wa club rugby system and stated that i cant speculate on what the funding for the ARC from the aru that rugbywa rreceived was.
i havent looked at a rugbywa annual report since about november last year so forgive me if i cant remember exact figures for every expenditure incurred but one of the ones i most definitely remember is that rugbywa put $2mil of its own cash into CLUB rugby.
i dont care if you trust me or not because theres no way i can post you a link to a report on paper.

why cant you post a link? why hasnt it been tabled in there annual report? if every other union can post there figures whats up with WA?

[NTT]

why cant you post a link? why hasnt it been tabled in there annual report? if every other union can post there figures whats up with WA?

the last report i read was the official one, where its printed on paper. paper as in tree resourced paper. i havent looked if the rugbywa website has the 2007 report up or not.

[fulvio sammut]

If WA club rugby got $2M out of RugbyWA this year then sure as hell Nedlands and Associates got $1,900,000 between them, because all the other clubs got was the over inflated premia paid on the virtually worthless insurance policy the ARU negotiated for each of them.

[zimeric]

so out of the two million outlayed by RugbyWA for the spirit, and its 2 million, you have just said that havent you?

read it again ...
he actually said 2 mil went to club rugby NOT the spirit!

[travelling_gerry]

The ARU website has what was loaned and written off to the member unions for the ARC.

Would you like the link WJ?

Its...... w......w......w........dot.....a...for apple....r for rugby....u...for utube...dot. c....o....m...another dot...au

[waratahjesus]

The ARU website has what was loaned and written off to the member unions for the ARC.

Would you like the link WJ?

Its...... w......w......w........dot.....a...for apple....r for rugby....u...for utube...dot. c....o....m...another dot...au

injoyed the mocking of my intellegance gerry, but that isnt a link!