'Rugby not for NRL forwards'

[welshrugbyfan]

Actually, ( I'm sure someone with your knowledge of this subject would know this ) they did not want to be paid for playing Rugby. Some of the Northern teams form the coal mining areas of Yorkshire & Lancashire had players who were supposed to be at work on Saturdays and they wanted to be able to compensate them for the loss of wages. What I'd love to know is whether some of the Welsh miners also wanted the same fair outcome. In any event the Southerners, who mostly didn't need to work Saturdays, controlled the RFU and screwed 'em over. Wouldn't want some of those hard case miners playing against their boys.

Yes I know all about the RFU wanting to keep it as an amatuer game and the 'broken time payments' and the decision not pay the players but this is a forum and I didn't want to type the entire history of the split into one of these forums. I'm sure there's plenty of reading material about for people to catch up on the history.

There isn't the history of the split in Australia and the rivalry here is minimal. If you lived in the UK for any period of time when you were younger you would get a better understanding of the hatred the two codes have for eachother especially in England. Even in the 1970's a rugby union club in England sacked a cleaner because she was married to a proffessional rugby league player, now that tells you something.

The 'southerners' you refer to are the posher private school boy origins of the game in England who had other means to support their players, I doubt the Welsh coal miners had it any easier than the English Northern miners and they played for the love of the game. I guess thats why there's so much love and passion for the game still in Wales. We set up our own union board the SWFU (South Wales Football Union) in 1878 which later became the WRU in 1880. The Northern Union split in 1895 was more to do with the RFU which was English based. The impact only really hit the Welsh when Jonathon Davies went to play in the Northen Union in 89 and it is still a touchy subject to some of the old boys. But I'm sure you knew all of this already.

[GIGS20]

Thanks for the history lesson boys, I for one respect the passion both of you have for your respective points of view, and love a good stoush (whether I'm participating or just watching) but back to topic, I reckon the current crop of League Converts (TimTam and Crossy) have been managed a whole lot better by the ARU than the first experiment.

I see a lot of the angst Between League and Union coming from that experiment. the players that came over were, to a man, arrogant and ineffective and had a walk up start to the national team. Regardless of whether there was a desperate need for backs at the time or not, this was resented. The players involved also went into the Waratahs, which caused angst for the other two provincial unions.

This time around the talent has been spread, they have earned their place in the team (and a bunch of injuries has seen both of them named in the 22 now) and they have spoken urbanely and humbly about their chances of making the status of dual international.

In my heart, much of the gap has been breached. I still don't watch league as a game though.

[shasta]

Ricky Stuart is probably the best convert (the other way) that I can think of.

Oh i dunno Wally Lewis made a fair League player. Ray Price, John Peard, John Ballesty Dick Thornett, Kevin Ryan, John Kirwan, Michael O'Connor, Andrew Leeds, .......... there was once a procession of fine players - in the amateur days.

[beige]

Messenger, Kearney, Offiah...

I'm glad those days are gone

[shasta]

Yes I know all about the RFU wanting to keep it as an amatuer game and the 'broken time payments'

I said you probably would.

Even in the 1970's a rugby union club in England sacked a cleaner because she was married to a proffessional rugby league player, now that tells you something.

Yes. It's called bigotry and I hope she took them to the courts and sued their arse off for unfair dismissal.

The 'southerners' you refer to are the posher private school boy origins of the game in England who had other means to support their players,

A salient point. I'm just surprised a Welshman would think that's OK for those toffy Southerners, given that you say the Welsh only played for the love of the game. But apparently it's OK to look after RU players by "other means" and always has been. There has been "shamateur" Rugby for many years. In France it led to the demise of Rugby League, in fact. It was a source of wonder how the likes of David Campese and others survived and thrived by playing "amateur" Rugby in Italy too. At least now what we all knew was going on has been brought out of the closet.

But I'm sure you knew all of this already.

Yep.

[beige]

In France it led to the demise of Rugby League, in fact.

Well that and the fact that French rugby aligned themselves with the Nazi wartime government and used that leverage to outlaw rugby league and take all of their assets...

[shasta]

Thanks for the history lesson boys, I for one respect the passion both of you have for your respective points of view, and love a good stoush (whether I'm participating or just watching) but back to topic,

We've been having this little public private discussion across a few threads, having a bit of fun, without really hijacking any of them. Why should you spoil the fun. Everyone nows Victorians know stuff all about the history of the two codes. So butt out, you bloody party pooper.

[shasta]

Well that and the fact that French rugby aligned themselves with the Nazi wartime government and used that leverage to outlaw rugby league and take all of their assets...

Really? I never knew that bit. They made a pretty good post war comeback then. That means they have been killed off at least twice but are still kicking. The Catalans Dragons buy as many Aus/NZ mungos as the French RU franchises.

[jargan83]

Well that and the fact that French rugby aligned themselves with the Nazi wartime government and used that leverage to outlaw rugby league and take all of their assets...

Spot on Biege. I believe it was Hitler himself that outlawed League in France after intense collaboration from Union. There was talk about 18 months ago that France may be let in to the tri nations League comp. So has Rugby League survived and strengthened in France?? I believe the last time Australia played them they won 36-10ish. Seeing some of the demolishon jobs the Aussies have done in recent years thats not too bad
Posted via Mobile Device

[beige]

French rugby league got really strong again after WWII (and I think they hosted the first league world cup), and they beat Australia as recently as 30 years ago, but the game dropped off badly after that. Its popularity has picked up again recently and they have had some encouraging performances in defeat but they got absolutely crushed by England last year.

[jargan83]

they did in 1975 i think, and i believe they were the last team to beat us in a 3 test series. Do Catalans Dragons play in the English Super League or do the French have their own Super League
Posted via Mobile Device

[beige]

They play in England. However, the Dragons sprung out of the French league's UTC club, kind of like how the Force sprung out of the WA rugby team.

[welshrugbyfan]

I said you probably would.



Yes. It's called bigotry and I hope she took them to the courts and sued their arse off for unfair dismissal.



A salient point. I'm just surprised a Welshman would think that's OK for those toffy Southerners, given that you say the Welsh only played for the love of the game. But apparently it's OK to look after RU players by "other means" and always has been. There has been "shamateur" Rugby for many years. In France it led to the demise of Rugby League, in fact. It was a source of wonder how the likes of David Campese and others survived and thrived by playing "amateur" Rugby in Italy too. At least now what we all knew was going on has been brought out of the closet.



Yep.

Unfair dismissal in the 70's, was that even heard of then? My comments on toffy southerners would get me into trouble. We'll have to disagree on the whole Union/league thing or we'll be at this forever. I didn't think it was OK to look after the players with other means I just meant they had the money down there to do that. I can't imagine the Welsh coalminers were getting looked after by other means either and that's why they played for the love of the game.

[Woody]

Very enlightening gentlemen. Thanks for all the French history stuff, fascinating.
As an aside, is it common knowledge that Gitts father played for the Raiders?

[jargan83]

i assumed so.............
Posted via Mobile Device