Force v Tahs: Gits Injury

[.X.]

First up I am not here to judge the actions on any players or Tahs Fans - and to Moses and WaratahHeyZeus if we can keep the snickering to that other thread I would appreciate it.

I want to get serious for a moment. I have 2 Questions, one is specifically for our resident referee (thanks Ecky love your work). But everyone is welcome to comment.

Question 1. Should Lote have rolled Gits over like he did?

First up I have to say that when Lote did this I never felt prouder to be a supporter of Rugby Union and for the first time in ages I actually Liked Lote, and I have no doubt that he only wanted to help a mate. But did he do the right thing?

Question 2. Why didnt the TMO or the Assistant Referees advise the Referee to stop the game immediately?

To me it looked like play continued with a player on the ground obviously knocked out for at least 2 minutes. Aren't there procedures to stop play mark the spot and play a scrum once the player is taken care of.

[AlcoholicStalker]

I was under the impression that play only had to be stopped if the injured player was in a dangerous position relative to the play. I dont know if this is the case or not because I didnt see the game.

[KenyaQuin]

Q1. This tends to be the instinctive reaction, to protect the injured from swallowing their tongue, I would assume. However, I believe best practice is to leave the player as is to avoid further damage or injury in the event of the injury being spinal. In this instance, talking to the injured to keep them alert (in doing so may be able to determine extent of injury) until the medically competent arrive at the scene.

Q2. I'm not too familiar with the current laws, however, it was as AS has stated. Play is to continue unless close to the injured (and medical staff).

[AlcoholicStalker]

Technically he shouldnt have rolled him over the way he did (i did manage to see that bit of footage) however there is a correct procedure for placing people in the recovery position that may be at risk of spinal injury. Unfortunatly to be done correctly you need about 4 people. ie: 1 person to hold his neck straight, 1 person on either side to roll him gently whilst still supporting his back and another person to hold the legs straight.

So in most circumstances unless you have 4 people that are properly trained it is better to leave the injured patient how they are, unless it puts them in more danger then moving them would.

Which reminds me my first aid expires soon.

[zimeric]

St Johns Ambulance point of view is that Lote did absolutely the right thing. (Senior first aid training as of september 07)

the current consensus is that its far better to roll someone on their side than allow them to choke on their tounge or vomit. In situations like this, it is very easy.
The fact that it took nearly two minutes for play to stop is disgusting, play should be stopped immediately with the team in possession to have scrum feed.

my2c

[BLR]

The fact that it took nearly two minutes for play to stop is disgusting, play should be stopped immediately with the team in possession to have scrum feed.

I think that Rugby should take a leaf out of soccers book, when someone goes down from a bad challenge or whatever (has to seem legit) then the team usually boots the ball out, when everything is sorted the opposition team who now have possession basically kick the ball back to the team who originally kicked the ball out..

[Punkpapa]

Brilliant Post - I thought exactly the same thing. I concur with the thought that there needs to be a better process for injuries that require medical attention. If the TMO saw the situation, he can radio to the Ref to call play to an immediate halt, with restart options, as suggested above, being enforced once the player is off the field. I understand that advantage is being played, however, in some cases (unlike Gits one), the reason the player is down may be due to illegal play (ie high tackle, late hit etc).

[gotheforce]

To my knowledge, i think Lote did the right thing. Lote said he saw Gits eyes roll behind his head, so i guess the right thing was to put him in a recovery position. Good job Lote.

I felt the referee should have called the game off when he realised a player was knocked out. Imagine the consequences if play continued and other players fall on Giteau. In any game that i coach or referee, if there is ever a player who looks knocked out, i would immediately call the game off and if the ref didnt see it, id run on the field to ensure the player is alright and that other players stay away from him. Play would then be restarted with a scrum to the team in possession of the ball. I think its way cheap for a team to keep playing, to make use a side lacking of 1 man.

[The InnFORCEr]

I tend to agree with most of the above regarding stopping play, BUT imagine if we get to point that soccer is at, fake falls, academy awards etc. What I do like about soccer though is the fact that the players bring play to a stop. It's a hard one to clear up as it doesn't seem to happen all that often, this seriously.

[Moses]

"I spoke to Lote [Tuqiri] after the game when he came in to the dressing rooms and thanked him. I was told he assisted me by the medical staff, when I was being looked at. It was a good thing to do, and I would like to think I would do the same thing for him

Sky Sports | Rugby Union | Super 14 | News | Force not strong in Giteau

[KenyaQuin]

(Taken off the Coaching Toolbox from the NZRU website)

SUSPECTED SPINAL INJURY

In the event of a suspected spinal or other serious injury:

GET HELP FIRST, and GET IT FAST

1) Call 111 for an Ambulance

Don’t move the player until qualified medical personnel arrive! A player may have suffered a severe neck injury, and yet still be able to move. If the spine is unstable, and they are moved, they run the risk of permanent paralysis. Referees and coaches should err on the side of caution and seek medical assistance in the event of any potentially serious injury.

[AlcoholicStalker]

St Johns Ambulance point of view is that Lote did absolutely the right thing. (Senior first aid training as of september 07)

the current consensus is that its far better to roll someone on their side than allow them to choke on their tounge or vomit. In situations like this, it is very easy.
The fact that it took nearly two minutes for play to stop is disgusting, play should be stopped immediately with the team in possession to have scrum feed.

my2c

The manner in which he moved him is the problem given that there was the very real possibility of a neck/spinal injury.

[BLR]

I tend to agree with most of the above regarding stopping play, BUT imagine if we get to point that soccer is at, fake falls, academy awards etc. What I do like about soccer though is the fact that the players bring play to a stop. It's a hard one to clear up as it doesn't seem to happen all that often, this seriously.

They stop the play if for example a player passes the ball and is brought down by a bad challenge that the ref doesn't pick up on, the players themselves deem how bad it is...but if something like a defender goes through and does a good challenge and the player acts hurt even though it was a fair challenge they rarely give the ball away to stop play. It's the referrees stopping play when a player dives that is the problem, the players themselves don't stop play as they would do in a somewhat legitimate injury....

As Rugby isn't as open as it's structure, essentially from point A to point B so say if a situation like Giteau's happens, who is to say the Tah could just say 'oh yeah, he was behind us in backplay, we played on because we obviously didnt see him'. Hence where the linesman comes in...but they have to be real about it, not hold the game up for any wussy thing.

[AndyS]

OK, better question for all with an opinion - It was you that saw a player drop after a bad hit, eyes rolled back and spasming. Play continues and medical is taking a bit of time as a result, what would you have done? Personally, I don't think I could have just stood there and called for help, especially given the risk of inhaled vomit.

[The InnFORCEr]

what would you have done?

What Lote did.