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Thread: Western Force set sights on neighbours

  1. #1
    Veteran laura's Avatar
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    Western Force set sights on neighbours

    Western Force set sights on neighbours
    AAP - April 5, 2008, 1:13 pm

    After ending the Bulls' title defence, Western Force coach John Mitchell has set his sights on dominating Australian neighbours to confirm his team's standing as Super 14 contenders.

    The Force's last minute 15-14 win in Perth on Friday forced Bulls coach Frans Ludeke and skipper Fourie du Preez to concede their title defence was over after four successive away defeats.

    And while Mitchell admitted the win had been ugly, owing more to persistence than precision, the change in attitude following last week's debacle against the Stormers had been satisfying.

    "We won ugly tonight," Mitchell said.

    "We gave them some free ball which allowed them to lead, but what was very pleasing was I thought the attitude was terrific.

    "We just needed to mount pressure and we did it together tonight, whereas last week we were disjointed."

    Two tries to Bryan Habana had given the Bulls a 14-3 first half lead, and looked likely to increase talk of the Force's hometown hoodoo after four wins in 15 attempts at Subiaco.

    But with Matt Giteau again earning his money with a try, the Force huffed and puffed before Ryan Cross eventually blew the Bulls' house down in the final minute.

    "We knew we had to grind that one out in the second half. With 30 minutes to go we knew we had them on the ropes," skipper Nathan Sharpe said.

    "We played ugly but the pleasing thing was there was no panic. We performed well with attitude - maybe not so much with skill and execution."

    With the Waratahs in Perth next week, followed by the Reds in Brisbane, Mitchell says he was relishing a shift to domestic conflict.

    "We look forward to our neighbours," Mitchell said.

    "It is just a special couple of weeks, and the fact is Test spots are up for grabs. But while there will be media focus on that situation, it is more importantly about what we do."

    And after being underwhelmed by Kiwi referee Steve Walsh's interpretation of the tackle law, Mitchell said he was looking forward to Australian officials allowing quicker ball for his talented backs.

    "The last two weeks for our liking we don't think the first defender has been dealt with on the floor," Mitchell said.

    "He is getting too much time there, and that certainly was not the way we left the Super 14 conference, the product was to be improved by that area being cleaned up.

    "We are into an exciting phase of state vs state now, and it becomes a different proposition because we are all Australian.

    "And Australian referees will deal with that non-compliant guy on the floor."/

    I highlighted the good points! Mitch is a champ I even got a photo of him smiling last night!

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  2. #2
    Veteran force addict's Avatar
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    yeahhhhhhh! we're gonna show australia how good WA is!! prepare to lose waratahs!

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    Champion Contributor Jehna's Avatar
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    Interesting comments on the ref. Perhaps the different interpretations of the rules can explain some of those calls last night. I thought it was just bad referring but maybe my understanding of the rules is incorrect....or maybe everyone is just still adjusting to the ELVs

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    Veteran Swee_82's Avatar
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    It's gonna be a LONG week... mum called as soon as the Tahs game was over to tell me that "my boys were going to suffer next week"

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    Immortal Contributor jono's Avatar
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    wishful thinking on her part there swee.
    but seeing as SHE started the verbal trashing. its going to make it that much sweeter for you i suppose

    and i would say the reffing was 'interesting' to say the least last night.
    and believe me, that is the least. because i said a lot worse last night and this morning when i was talking to some bloke about it at work.

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    Both Joanthan Kaplain and Steven Walsh were clueless in reagrds to the ELV'S , in the end the Northern Bulls will wonder how they didn't win?

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    Rookie Punkpapa's Avatar
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    Due to family committments, couldn't get to the game Friday, but took the opportunity to watch it on Fox - very interesting being able to actually see the rucks.
    Walsh isn't a bad ref, but I will say that he has a definite tendency to give the leading team advantage - who is ever in the lead (or in the opps red zone) get a more favourable decision. Seems to be a trait of a lot of NZ refs.

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    Senior Player Blackswan's Avatar
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    Sportsears ......sportsears..............sportsears.......... ..

    Listen in to what the ref and assistants say whilst on the field of play and get some additional insights into why some of the decisions are made.

    Not to say that refs don't get it wrong, but it's not very often when you consider the number of decisions that must be made during a match. And they are human so it's unreasonable to expect them to be correct every single time. It's easy to be critical of decisions when they don't go the way of your team but the refs are usually correct, especially when helped by an experienced assistant. Like Friday night.

    John Mitchell's comment was very specific to the tackling player being given too much time on the ground (ie slowing the ball down by not rolling away) and was not a generic complaint about other decisions.

    I thought both Walsh and Bray had good games apart from what Mitchell commented upon. The Aussie assistant Goddard was less impressive.

    Walsh had the courage to change his mind when he thought he was wrong and to explain to the players why he was changing his mind. Bray had the confidence to assist when appropriate. For example -

    O'Young is offside and picks the ball up after a charge down by a team mate. Walsh awards a penalty to the Bulls for the offside. O'Young protests and causes sufficient confusion for Walsh to change his decision and award a scrum to the Force. Lyndon Bray intervenes and tells Walsh he was correct in awarding penalty and Walsh again changes his decison and reverts to a penalty to the Bulls. A player in an offside position can not be played onside by a team mate charging down a kick. ("In general play a player is offside if the player is in front of a team mate who last played the ball"). Laws 11.2, 11.3 and 11.4 are pretty clear. There are no exceptions for "when your team mate charges down a kick you are then onside".

    The confusion might arise because a player from the same team as the kicker who is in an offside position can be played onside from the opposition player charging down a kick, Law 11.4(f).

    But the point is that the crowd cheered when a scrum was awarded and then booed when the penalty was reinstated. Because the majority of the crowd have never read the laws of the game but think that they know when the ref has got it wrong. A bit like the fox sports commentators really

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    Champion Contributor Jehna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackswan View Post
    But the point is that the crowd cheered when a scrum was awarded and then booed when the penalty was reinstated. Because the majority of the crowd have never read the laws of the game but think that they know when the ref has got it wrong. A bit like the fox sports commentators really
    I completely agree with your interpretation of the rules Blackswan but i think the issue comes in whether you believe O'Young was offside in the first place. Also I don't know about the rest of the crowd but my dissatisfaction with the ref was that he changed his mind twice! I don't have a problem with refs correcting their decisions if they believe they may be wrong, but if he is prepared to change his original decision on the grounds that O'Young had a cry about it (on your analysis) then it doesn't give you much confidence in his decision making skills. It is crucial for a refs credibility that they apply the laws with certainty. If he thought he'd made a mistake following O'Young's objection then he should have consulted with his assistant refs (thanks Ecky) before changing his mind.

    In addition, the crowd probably would have been a whole lot happier if he didn't shrug his shoulders and raise his hands in the air as if to say "i don't know I don't have a clue" 3 times throughout the match when challenged on decisions.

    Just me too cents worth...feel free to ignore it

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    Senior Player Blackswan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehna View Post
    ........ but i think the issue comes in whether you believe O'Young was offside in the first place. Also I don't know about the rest of the crowd but my dissatisfaction with the ref was that he changed his mind twice!

    Just me too cents worth...feel free to ignore it
    I wouldn't ignore your views Jehna. Sensible.

    Agree with your suggestion that it is dependent upon whether O'Young was offside. Hence my original post included -

    "In general play a player is offside if the player is in front of a team mate who last played the ball". Laws 11.2, 11.3 and 11.4 are pretty clear. There are no exceptions for "when your team mate charges down a kick you are then onside".

    O'Young was in front of the guy (Staniforth ??) who charged down the kick - the 'team mate who last played the ball'. Law 11.2 covers when you can be put onside by a team mate and 11.3 when you can be put onside by an opposition player. None of them include the case in point - there are no exceptions or allowances within these Laws for o'Young being played onside in the circumstances. Hence o'Young was offside and was penalised because he played the ball.

    I don't have a problem with Walsh changing his mind twice provided he gets it right. Which he did. He was confused "in the heat of the moment" by o'Young's gesturing that it had been a knock-on (because a team mate of the kickers would have been played onside) but then was put right by Bray. I concur that perhaps he should have consulted with Bray when first changing his mind but respect the guy for having the b@lls to admit to his mistakes on live television !

    As you may have guessed - I'm an advocate of the "I may not agree with the ref's interpretation but will defend to the death his right to be wrong sometimes"

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    Champion Contributor no.8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jehna View Post
    ...In addition, the crowd probably would have been a whole lot happier if he didn't shrug his shoulders and raise his hands in the air as if to say "i don't know I don't have a clue" 3 times throughout the match when challenged on decisions...
    Maybe Ecky should be miked up and the Ref's would be able to give the correct decision in future (after removing all the expletives of course!)

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    Senior Player Blackswan's Avatar
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    Ryan Cross is a winger ?

    Am I missing something here or was Cross at outside centre ??

    "A try to Emirates Western Force winger Ryan Cross with 95 seconds left on the clock"

    This was taken from the RWA web site !!!! Who writes this ?

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    Apprentice OMS's Avatar
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    I know the forwards are the lynch pin in any team, but can someone explain to me why the backs didnt kick through the defensive line and run onto it? I noticed that with the two SA teams, they where very flat in defence and picked the Force backs off . Watching the Waratahs game they also have a flat defensive line, I thought the idea was to slow them up and turn them around.I dont want the Waratahs to win.

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    The backs are just there to look pretty

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    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackswan View Post
    I don't have a problem with Walsh changing his mind twice provided he gets it right. Which he did. He was confused "in the heat of the moment" by o'Young's gesturing that it had been a knock-on (because a team mate of the kickers would have been played onside) but then was put right by Bray. I concur that perhaps he should have consulted with Bray when first changing his mind but respect the guy for having the b@lls to admit to his mistakes on live television !
    That may be true, but he awarded a scrum, not a penalty.....If O'Young was offside, it should have been a penalty. Personally, I would have been quite OK for him to make the call, talk to the assistant and change the call. That's OK, not a problem. to make a call, change it, change it again and end up with an interpretation which could only be that Spanner knocked it on in a chargedown doesn't make it a confidence inspiring incident!

    Quote Originally Posted by OMS View Post
    can someone explain to me why the backs didnt kick through the defensive line and run onto it? I noticed that with the two SA teams, they where very flat in defence and picked the Force backs off.
    Or why didn;t Gits run at the line more, he spent the whole game running along the line picking up runners, maybe two or three runs of his own......confusing, there were some HUGE holes that he just ran past, not like him at all!

    I wonder if he's not well!

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    C'mon the

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    Legend Contributor Flamethrower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swee_82 View Post
    It's gonna be a LONG week... mum called as soon as the Tahs game was over to tell me that "my boys were going to suffer next week"
    Ask her if she's confident enough to put her hair on the result.
    That should keep her quiet

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    Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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