The Fifth Australian Super Team

[GIGS20]

I've gotta say, I have no valid idea or opinion of SA's current position in rugby terms. I'm just echoing feelings I've gained from reading Ox's posts.

As I said he might just be overstating the case because he's frustrated. Read Fulvio's posts about RugbyWA support for the local club scene or pretty much any post on the ARC canning for examples of same!

[KenyaQuin]

Come on guys, it wasn't that long ago...South Australia Presidents VX v Perth Spirit LIVE SCORES - Western Force Rugby Supporters Site

My impression was that they are about 80-90% of what WA was pre-Force.

Andy..no doubt there is some rugby there..again, perhaps Ox could give us a synopsis when he gets a chance.

[Thequeerone]

agreed AndyS but without the mining boom
Adelaide loved the RWC 2003 - it was drunk dry

[The Lone Hydrangea]

Melbourne is the sporting capital of Oz. It may suck but its the truth and they do love their sport. They have clout and id love to see another franchise there. It will work.

[frontrow]

Thier goes tlh, stirring Burgs up again...
SA has the rugby sevens, and this is a fantastic event from all accounts, so thier may be potential thier, and they also have a purpose built rectangular stadium already in place, one better than us already...
Melbourne are spoilt for choice and i can't see that rugby would get a fair share of media attention against the gayfl once thier season begins....
Similar story in Adelaide as well (regarding gayfls popularity), but would be nice to see them get one over Melbourne, make up for the Grand Prix...I have never forgiven Victoria for that....

[GIGS20]

so who are the three who voted it has merit....Chook, Innocent Quokka and ChrisWhittakerisaRugbyGod?

[travelling_gerry]

Super idea, bad timing - Parra
Greg Growden | February 2, 2008

A FIFTH Australian Super rugby team based in Sydney's western suburbs could easily be a success, say rugby league officials - but it is unlikely to attract the funding of the Parramatta Leagues Club.

The Herald revealed yesterday that the Western Sydney Rams could be resurrected as the fifth Australian provincial team, based at Parramatta Stadium, as part of an expanded Super tournament. The high-ranking officials pushing the proposal argue it is imperative that rugby expands into its heartland, and that it defies logic that Sydney - the biggest city in the tournament - has only one team.

To be competitive against rugby league and AFL, officials argue that rugby must have a greater presence in the prime growth area of Sydney's western suburbs - and that involves having a Super team based there.

After a similar proposal several years ago grabbed the attention of the Parramatta Leagues Club, which was interested in injecting more than $8 million into what was then going to be the fourth Australian team, rugby officials were expected to head in a similar direction when looking for backers for the latest venture.

However, Parramatta Leagues Club chief executive officer Denis Fitzgerald, who in 2001 was involved in discussions with Australian Rugby Union officials about having a team based in Parramatta, yesterday warned that times had changed.

"From a leagues club viewpoint, at the moment we couldn't do any funding for a Super 14, 15 or 16 team," Fitzgerald said. "We've been really hit hard by the poker machine tax, especially, while the smoking bans have rocked us. We are now paying about $7m more per year in poker machine tax than we were before the first of four rises.

"It has become desperate, to the extent that we are going to record a loss for the first time in about 30 years."

Fitzgerald said this had also affected the leagues club support of Parramatta rugby club. It has been the major sponsor of the rugby club for a number of years, as well as taking over its licensed club.

"We put in $500,000 to the Parramatta rugby club [per year], but we won't be able to do that on an ongoing basis. We can't commit any more funding beyond 2008," he said.

However, Fitzgerald said there remained potential for a Super rugby presence in Parramatta.

"With my other hat, as a member of the Parramatta Stadium Trust, obviously we would like Super 14-type games there," he said. "But the Stadium Trust is not in a position to be a promoter or entrepreneur.

"If there was a major backer, or someone had a brilliant business plan where it would at least break square, certainly we as a leagues club would like to assist. We might be able to do some cross-promotion, and I'm sure the Stadium Trust would do everything they can to do a good deal for the use of the ground, because at this stage there are only 10 major events there."

When asked if a fifth Super team would work in the west, Fitzgerald replied: "If the team is reasonably competitive, it would. There are a lot of very interested rugby people out this way, and especially in The Hills area. There is a lot of junior rugby played, but it would require a competitive team right from the start.

"There would have to be millions of dollars put into that franchise, presumably by the ARU or some other fairy godmother, to make sure it was promoted substantially, and that it was a viable alternative to rugby league, given that we are so strong in this area."


Super idea, bad timing - Parra - rugbyheaven07.com.au

[travelling_gerry]

Interesting that growden one days boosts the idea then the next gives it a thumbs down.

When I read the first article I was a bit sceptical as I remember seeing a piece on TV about soccer and the Parra Leagues club saying it was worse decision they ever made to have a soccer team afffiliated as part of the old NSL and that they would never do anything like that again..seems they wont.

[no.8]

Whatever way this pans out, it's not going to happen this year anyway.

The idea has some merit - there is prolific Rugby Union infrastructure in Sydney.
However, the Rugby type sponsors in both Sydney and Brisbane I suspect are at maximum financial ouput.

Hence, one of main reasons that the 4th Australian Super Rugby was taken out of this zone in the first place.

Experiment with some success 2 years on - Western Force 2 draws and a win against Australian opposition - without a doubt the new kids on the block are looking good both on and off the field.

The ARU, VRU and the SARU have put various strategies in place. The Melbourne Rebels we're a major success in the ARC and the IRB 7's is a viable tournament.

So who should get it?

Melbourne? The Crusaders will not like that.
They have made no secret that they want Melbourne as their cash cow and are working hard to get a foot hold in there and by the end of these current Super Rugby arrangements they will, no doubt, have completed their Crusade and have a vested interest in Victoria .

This will satisfy the Victorians lust for the best and perhaps they'll leave the Brumbies alone?

Adelaide? I think there are 4 compelling and valid reasons:
1. Like WA it will be a new ground being broken. Perth had 2 AFL teams and just over 1.5 million population and the Western Force has flourished with it's immigrants and the disillusioned locals. Adelaide also has 2 AFL teams about 1.5 million population and lots and lots of South African expats.
2. South Australian Premier Mike Rann is on the War Path wants events to his "backwater". Still smarting from being raped in '90's by the Vic's.
3. A long term strategy (Australian) Rugby Union is to grow. Like Perth, Adelaide is small but a pick able ripe fruit. Having 5 states/provinces with long term stability and viable Rugby prospects will be a vital tool in the continued growth of the sport. The pie will increase in size. Melbourne is a huge fruit with lots of flies. AFL, Football, Rugby League, Basket Ball, grand pricks, horse racing and always open to having the creme de la creme of Rugby - the Lions, Bledisloe Cup and the Crusaders! Take a big bite and then head back to the nest with the spoils!
4. Geographically - all of Rugby will be physically connected!

My vote is for the South Australian Black Falcons. Then in long term develop the Northern Territories and carry on picking at the meaty flesh of the Melbourne fruit to top up the Rugby coffer.

[GIGS20]

I find it even more interesting that one day Growden writes an argument that is largely fantasy and speculation and the next writes an article quoting the first as fact. Is he now promoting himself as the Unnamed Sauce?

He should adapt his by line to "Greg Growden, Senior rugby correspondent and official spokesman of the ARU"

At least he's now got one article in the hundreds he's written in his (laughingly referred to as ) Journalism career which is based upon fact and quotes from actual humans. (that being the quote from Parra Leagues club CEO Denis Fitzgerald that they won't have anything to do with it!)

[GIGS20]

Adelaide? I think there are 4 compelling and valid reasons:
1. Like WA it will be a new ground being broken. Perth had 2 AFL teams and just over 1.5 million population and the Western Force has flourished with it's immigrants and the disillusioned locals. Adelaide also has 2 AFL teams about 1.5 million population and lots and lots of South African expats.
2. South Australian Premier Mike Rann is on the War Path wants events to his "backwater". Still smarting from being raped in '90's by the Vic's.
3. A long term strategy (Australian) Rugby Union is to grow. Like Perth, Adelaide is small but a pick able ripe fruit. Having 5 states/provinces with long term stability and viable Rugby prospects will be a vital tool in the continued growth of the sport. The pie will increase in size. Melbourne is a huge fruit with lots of flies. AFL, Football, Rugby League, Basket Ball, grand pricks, horse racing and always open to having the creme de la creme of Rugby - the Lions, Bledisloe Cup and the Crusaders! Take a big bite and then head back to the nest with the spoils!
4. Geographically - all of Rugby will be physically connected!

5. of the four provinces operating Super 14 teams currently, Western Australia is the top earner (and although I don't have the figures in front of me) I think the only one to post a profit this year. SA would operate under similar financial structures, as WA since the setups would be comparable, Western Sydney would operate under similar structures as NSW which should the 'almost bankrupt' ARU choose in that case

[jargan83]

Melbourne? The Crusaders will not like that.
They have made no secret that they want Melbourne as their cash cow and are working hard to get a foot hold in there and by the end of these current Super Rugby arrangements they will, no doubt, have completed their Crusade and have a vested interest in Victoria .

I hate to point to be blunt about it, but it ARU decides that the best thing for Australian Rugby is a team in Melbourne then tell the Crusaders to zip their lip and suck it up. The interests of the game in our country as opposed to the interests of a foreign side would surely be more important??

[hopep]

Growden certainley talks a good story up but little credibile supporting arguement.
There can be no possibility of any S14 expansion until Australia (ARU) develop a pool of new talent that is both deep and wide. In other words, there must be an ongoing, succesful (financialy and playing) regional competition before any more talent is available at the S14 level. Thats not going to happen because the ARU wasted money and effort on other matters - not developing the games base.

This Growden rant seems to follow a very Sydney mindset. The fact that there is a large supporter, and player, base in the western suburbs for LEAGUE must mean that they will all switch over to UNION if we just stick a team in the area. This is a false premise. Very few supporters of league would be interested in the Union version, the same goes for sponsors - they are responding to markets not the sport persay. The fact that Sydney clubs are already in the area and can't 'win over' the league followers show the lie in his argument. The fact that most league players coaxed over to union have nearly always returned to league shows there is, and always wil be, only a small amount of cross over.

As some one else stated in an earlier post, the ARU would do much better in a greenfield expansion, as they did in Perth. This is why they will ignore imbeciles like Growden and select Melbourne as the only viable expansion option. Growden, in this most recent article, continues to affirm that he suffers from the same myopic, introspective delusions as do many purported rugby 'knowledge' people from Sydney. Coals to Newcastle is not a forward thinking, nor viable option. Sydney has done its best to hamper the growth of a great game for small minded regional gain. This sort of plan shows why Sydney will always hamper genuine development. They cried doom and gloom when QLD insisted on representation, the same when ACT developed the Brumbie and again when the Force was initiated in WA. More of the same from people whos brains appear to resemble their testicles.

[OzFUB]

Oz is not ready for a fifth team. We are struggling for suffiecent talent for four.

We would need a number of years of the ARC or similar before we would be ready for a fifth team.

[travelling_gerry]

O'Neill should know about the West Sydney experiment. It didnt work for Soccer and it wont work for Rugby.