Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 36

Thread: Comp to trial new laws

  1. #1
    Immortal Contributor
    Moderator
    Burgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Country WA
    Posts
    23,360
    vCash
    538000

    Comp to trial new laws

    Comp to trial new laws

    Greg Ford | October 2, 2007

    Next year's Super 14 is set to be tipped on its head - again.

    A plan is being hatched to fast-track experimental laws in time for the 2008 competition.

    The Herald has learnt that the pioneering move is set to be rubber-stamped as soon as next week, with the IRB to ask SANZAR members to trial the law changes at a meeting in Paris.

    SANZAR will release a statement soon afterwards endorsing the idea, and sign it a couple of days later.

    Negotiations between the game's powerbrokers have been underway for some time. SANZAR is enthusiastic about the idea and ready to introduce the law changes next February.

    The "Experimental Law Variations" have been trialled in the ARC in its first season and have been well received by players including Kurtley Beale. They include moving the offside line five metres back behind the hindmost feet at scrum time and a complete overhaul of the breakdown.

    Players will be allowed to use their hands in the ruck and if teams fail to recycle the ball, a free kick is immediately awarded to the opposition.

    Turnovers will be more prevalent and fitness levels will be tested. But the overall result is a higher-paced game, more tries and a more satisfying spectacle for television viewers. This is why SANZAR is thought to be an enthusiastic supporter of the idea.

    Rugby's complex laws have alienated many fans and ratings for Super 14 matches and Tests have been falling.

    But the move does have a high degree of risk. The rules won't be adopted by the rest of the rugby world, if at all, until the IRB votes on them in April next year. If they are a flop, then the SANZAR nations will have to revert to today's rules after the Super 14 ends.

    Much will depend on how the changes rate on TV. If they prove a hit then more conservative unions in the northern hemisphere may be persuaded to make the leap.

    It will also have wide ranging ramifications for each team in the competition. The new laws would suit mobile, highly fit players and some believe that because some matches have as few as half a dozen scrums, props could become an endangered species.

    If the laws were adopted in April it would give the southern hemisphere teams a jump on the rest of the rugby world.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "Bloody oath we did!"

    Nathan Sharpe, Legend.

  2. #2
    Legend Contributor
    Moderator
    Happy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    JB O'Reilly's
    Posts
    8,172
    vCash
    5000000
    why would you trial these rules at the level the super14 is ... and THEN go to a vote on how they worked ... why not NZ club and ARC levels??

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Chuck Norris has the greatest Poker-Face of all time. He won the 1983 World Series of Poker, despite holding only a Joker, a Get out of Jail Free Monopoly card, a 2 of clubs, 7 of spades and a green #4 card from the game Uno.

  3. #3
    Legend Court Reporter
    Contributor
    James's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Bridgetown, WA
    Posts
    6,140
    vCash
    32000
    It's hard to know exactly how it would go but I'd imagine that would suit the Force more than most. We have a lot of young players and in the forwards props like AJ Whalley (who used to be a flanker) and Gareth Hardy who aren't necessarily as proficient at scrum time as others have a fantastic work rate and will hopefully score even more tries.

    I'd imagine it would suit New Zealand teams also with a large number of highly skilled young players and a good general athleticism compared to the bigger and perhaps slower South Africans.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  4. #4
    Immortal Contributor
    Moderator
    Burgs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Country WA
    Posts
    23,360
    vCash
    538000
    Can't vouch for the NPC Happy, but the ARC is the first full trial of the rules in a "Provincial" arena, so in essence they have.
    Two terms that concern me are "fast track" and "rate on TV", I feel this is all being railroaded by the corporate dollar and that is the wrong reason to be "trialling" anything at international level.
    I think the SANZAR Nations have now done their bit and it should be up to the English Premier &/or Celtic Leagues to take the next step, God knows they are the ones who need to inject some excitement into their game plans, not the SH Nations!!!

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    "Bloody oath we did!"

    Nathan Sharpe, Legend.

  5. #5
    Immortal jargan83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Earth Capital
    Posts
    21,554
    vCash
    672000
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgs
    Two terms that concern me are "fast track" and "rate on TV", I feel this is all being railroaded by the corporate dollar and that is the wrong reason to be "trialling" anything at international level.
    I agree with that Burgs, just because it rates on tv or brings in more corporate dollars doesnt mean it's neccesarily good for the game (although we live in the professional age and the dollar seems to be driving force behind everything). We've all been to a few Perth Spirit games and seen the new laws in action and i'm sure that a few look apealing, but i dont see why it should be fast tracked. Surely the IRB could do further study into the laws in action then make a decision

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  6. #6
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Rockingham
    Posts
    20,729
    vCash
    1460000
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgs
    I think the SANZAR Nations have now done their bit and it should be up to the English Premier &/or Celtic Leagues to take the next step, God knows they are the ones who need to inject some excitement into their game plans, not the SH Nations!!!
    Exactly the reason why they won't trial the new laws Burgs! They're stuck in a time warp where multi-phase kicking rugby is the panacea.
    I actually think the laws are intended to weed this type of play out of the game in the long run and it'll certainly do that judging by what I've seen in the ARC, but at what cost? Certainly we'll quickly see a move to lighter, more mobile front rowers, and to me, that signals the beginning of the slippery slope that the Mungos took. The end of that slope is a game where the front rowers are SO mobile, they can no longer sustain the pressure of a real scrum (evidence of this already appearing in Australian rugby) and therefore the scrum is abandoned as a contest and becomes a gathering of the forwards in one area for a restart. Hookers are totally useless in their current form, and are replaced by a ballplayer (like a second scrumhalf) and all the forwards become attacking number 8 types.

    Chalk up the loss of 2 body types to "the spectacle" we no longer have the big fat tractor type (prop) and the short fat bottle-jack type (hooker)

    Since these bigger, more powerful blokes disappear, we start to see that the line outs are not as safe, we just don't have the blokes to lift 120 KG 2m guys up in the air to catch the ball. Ergo the line out becomes a shadow of it's former self and we no longer need locks to catch the ball from 4 metres off the ground under contact. let's replace them with a mobile ball-running type forward.

    There goes another body type, Stretch (the lineout jumper)

    With all these guys gone and replaces by more mobile players, we find that there aren't as many gaps in the defence, we need to make more of our half-breaks. It's not good enough to be "nippy" anymore because you don't have all these massive blokes to run around neither do you have these long gangly types to confuse with fancy footwork. I think Mr 96 Kg that you really don't have enough power to play this game, perhaps something more suited to your frame.....have you ever thought of ballet?

    Man, the list continues there goes shorty (the halfback)......and I guess any other back who had the heart to play above their weight.

    To Summarise our team would consist of the following

    2 X Prop 120 Kg Mobile ball runner with solid front-on defense
    1 X Hooker 120 Kg converted halfback, bulked up, good defense and a passing game
    2 X Lock 120 Kg Mobile ball runner with solid all round defense
    2 X Flanker 120 Kg Mobile ball runner with solid all round defense and a good turn of speed
    1 X No 8 120 Kg Mobile ball runner with awesome defense and an attitude! (a cool dance when he scores a try or makes a big hit would be great as well)
    1 X Scrumhalf 110 Kg Mobile ball runner with organizational and passing skills
    1 X FlyHalf 110 Kg Mobile ball runner with kicking skills
    2 X Centre 110 Kg blockbusting ball runner able to evade tackles from front on
    2 X Winger 110Kg lightning fast ball runner able to evade a tackle to the outside, Kicking and Catching skills an advantage.
    1 X Fullback 110Kg Winger who has exceptional catching and kicking skills

    Voila, that's what coaches COULD do with the new ELVs. I think it's important that the effect of the laws be researched adequately, this research must SPECIFICALLY address the components of our game which make it unique in the world of modern, professional sport. Rugby caters to a wider range of body shapes than any other. Don't stuff with the distinctives of our game!

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    C'mon the

  7. #7
    Veteran Contributor The EnForcer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    2,645
    vCash
    5000000
    Change is good! We have already seen that the law changes improve the speed of the game and that is what we need to bring union back from the current slump. It's all very well debating and debating but when you have clear evidence that the rules are having a positive impact on the games watchability and we are in a viewing down trend you need to take action. It needs to adapt quickly not wait and see. The so called "fast track" is being taken out of context I believe, these changes have been experimented in the SH as well as the NH at many levels.

    This is a fast moving world and will not stand by waiting for the traditionalists and prevaricators to make up their minds. We badly need the improved viewing figures and associated corporate dollar.

    I think it is great to see the IRB being proactive in the games development!

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Just happy to be here

  8. #8
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Rockingham
    Posts
    20,729
    vCash
    1460000
    http://thewholeforce.com/showthread.php?t=10277
    I think the change is occurring without monkeying with the rules too much. Don't get me wrong, I like change, and as a weedy little bugger who bludges out on the wing until a try needs scoring don't think I'm against running rugby, but I don't want to see the game change away from the current scenario where we have a place for all comers. The spirit of rugby (I believe) is inextricably bound up with this premise, you don't pay disrespect to ANYONE who is different, because you are likely to be made a fool of on the field. Me vs prop, I say Fatty, He punctures my lung, prop vs me, he says half pint i run around him three times before scoring, it's all in balance as it is. Change it as much as you want, just don't upset the balance!

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    C'mon the

  9. #9
    Veteran Contributor frontrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Perth/ Area C Newman
    Posts
    3,495
    vCash
    5000000
    GIGST, i love you man....Save the WHALES, i mean props....oh, who am i kidding, bring out greenpeace...

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    Proudly bought to you by a brewery somewhere....

  10. #10
    (formerly known as Coach) Your Humble Servant Darren's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia, Australia
    Posts
    14,234
    vCash
    282778
    I think further trialling in the Super14 without also incorporating the ELVs into other national comps would be to the Southern Hemispheres detriment when it comes to interhemispherical (you like that word? ) tests..

    How easy will they find it to move back to the current laws for international tests matches after playing a season of ELV rugby?

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  11. #11
    Immortal Contributor
    Moderator
    travelling_gerry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia, Australia
    Posts
    18,484
    vCash
    5100000
    True Coach...look how much trouble the Spirit boys had to adapt to the new laws....

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  12. #12
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Rockingham
    Posts
    20,729
    vCash
    1460000
    Quote Originally Posted by frontrow
    GIGST, i love you man....Save the WHALES, i mean props....oh, who am i kidding, bring out greenpeace...
    I'd organise a sausage sizzle but that's just going too far.....

    anyway if we get rid of big buggers like you there's no-one to save cheeky little shits like me from big buggers like you wearing different coloured shirts!

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
    C'mon the

  13. #13
    Legend Contributor
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Perth
    Posts
    5,270
    vCash
    5122000
    Big boos from me on general principle - at your highest level of provincial competition, you HAVE to play to Test rules. No-one can say, hand on heart, that a good player under the ELVs is a test player under existing rules.

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  14. #14
    Immortal jargan83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Earth Capital
    Posts
    21,554
    vCash
    672000
    I just read this on the Foxsports website and it looks like that we are set to have the new laws introduced into the Super 14 competition next year :

    Super 14 to adopt rule changes
    Peter Jenkins
    in Paris
    October 15, 2007 REVOLUTIONARY law changes to improve the game as a spectacle will be trialled in a worldwide first during next year's Super 14 series.

    The eight "experimental variations" used in the just-completed Australian Rugby Championship will now debut in a fully-fledged international competition following crucial talks between high-ranking officials on Saturday.

    South African, New Zealand and Australian bosses, at a SANZAR alliance meeting, were approached by the game's world governing body to gauge interest in adopting the radical regulations for the southern hemisphere provincial titles starting mid-February.

    An official request from the International Rugby Board to roll out the laws in Super 14 is expected on Friday.

    They include:

    * Allowing players to use their hands in a ruck provided they stay on their feet.

    * Making it legal to pull down a maul.

    * Imposing a 5m offside line for both backlines at a scrum.

    * Prohibiting players from kicking out on the full if they receive a pass from a teammate standing outside their quarter.

    ARU chairman Peter McGrath said last night that the SANZAR countries had agreed to discuss the proposal put forward by International Rugby Board chief executive Mike Miller.

    McGrath was also confident the new-look laws will be introduced to Super 14 providing the IRB make one key concession.

    Australia, New Zealand and South Africa want the IRB to guarantee that the "Stellenbosch Laws" will also apply when they host inbound tours from European countries in June, and in the Tri-Nations series in July-August.

    As one ARU source said: "We need the continuity factor. There is no point just using them in Super 14 and then going back to the old laws."

    ARU chief executive John O'Neill has been a long-term proponent of having the laws in place for the 2008 provincial series. Three months ago he was calling for the IRB to grant SANZAR a dispensation to crank up trials that have already taken place at lower levels of the game in Australia, New Zealand, France, England, Ireland and Scotland.

    "It's a no-brainer," he said. "It must happen in Super 14. We've seen them in practice, they enhance the game."

    Any measure to prompt more free-flowing football is also looming as a must for the game with the World Cup sudden-death stages dominated by kick-and-rumble tactics.

    Apart from allowing hands in the ruck, the new laws also draw a distinct offside line at the breakdown.

    According to the architects of change, including former Australia coach Rod Macqueen, it will lead to fewer pile-ups at the tackle area and less confusion for spectators.

    "We have to demystify this game," O'Neill has said in the past.

    "Even the gurus can't tell you. I've sat next to real rugby intellects and a penalty at the breakdown ... no idea. That's bad."

    Wallabies full back Chris Latham, after playing in the opening round of the ARC under the experimental laws, was not convinced about their effectiveness. He called the tackle contest a "free-for-all" and a "bunfight".

    But IRB referees boss Paddy O'Brien said the Australian third-tier competition produced "a far better product" and "made the game much easier to follow".

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

  15. #15
    Immortal jargan83's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Earth Capital
    Posts
    21,554
    vCash
    672000
    figured i should put a link to the story as well

    http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,...-23217,00.html

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. McKenzie hopes SANZAR will trial laws
    By The InnFORCEr in forum Super Rugby
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 27-11-07, 10:14
  2. Laws confuse before game starts
    By Burgs in forum International Rugby
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 19-11-07, 10:18
  3. John Laws does it again.
    By Flamethrower in forum Public Bar
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 18-08-07, 13:51
  4. NZ to trial new rugby laws
    By Burgs in forum Rugby
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 24-05-07, 15:26
  5. Clubs trial laws to simplify game
    By Burgs in forum International Rugby
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 18-01-07, 21:26

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •