Six Nations Squads 2006

[Flat-top]

I wouldn't want to appear to take sides(?) and as an Irishman I am the last person to say anything complimentary about the English National Team but I do watch GP (season ticket holder at Bath) and CL (most Ulster games) first hand.

I agree with the sentiments that kicks of whatever kind are worth more points than they deserve and that supporters obviously prefer to see a flowing 15 man rugby game with plentiful tries but that is not the real world for most competitions and leagues.

Despite what you say JW has not been a one kick wonder, Newcastle Falcons recognise this and on so many occasions since the WCup have named JW in their side (only for him not to play) or have delayed naming a side until the last minute in a blatant attempt to sell tickets...this works, and therefore goes someway to demonstrate that many supporters (accepted not Burgs!) want to see him and his style of play. Andy R would also pick him if possible for England and that is ahead of some very good number 10's that may not have such a kicking bias to their game, he gives more than "one-off" WCup winning kicks, lets not be so niave about that!

Seems that some of you need to accept there is an alternate point of view and that not all supporters demand a guarantee of 5+ tries in a match before they consider it a good contest.

[luke_the_pom]

I wouldn't want to appear to take sides(?) and as an Irishman I am the last person to say anything complimentary about the English National Team but I do watch GP (season ticket holder at Bath) and CL (most Ulster games) first hand.

I agree with the sentiments that kicks of whatever kind are worth more points than they deserve and that supporters obviously prefer to see a flowing 15 man rugby game with plentiful tries but that is not the real world for most competitions and leagues.

Despite what you say JW has not been a one kick wonder, Newcastle Falcons recognise this and on so many occasions since the WCup have named JW in their side (only for him not to play) or have delayed naming a side until the last minute in a blatant attempt to sell tickets...this works, and therefore goes someway to demonstrate that many supporters (accepted not Burgs!) want to see him and his style of play. Andy R would also pick him if possible for England and that is ahead of some very good number 10's that may not have such a kicking bias to their game, he gives more than "one-off" WCup winning kicks, lets not be so niave about that!

Seems that some of you need to accept there is an alternate point of view and that not all supporters demand a guarantee of 5+ tries in a match before they consider it a good contest.

totally agree!
Wilko has plenty of skills - you could not sit there and say he is 'weak' at anything - good passer, good tackler,alright pace,great awareness just his kicking skills are EXCELLENT!
and the talk bout the All Blacks play - obviously that works coz when did they last win a world cup??? And what ever you say about their recent tests, they will find it a lot harder to win the world cup in France!
I kno us England fans will keep going to a so called 'boring' game if we win in ANY sport.
next you will be telling me Flintoff isnt that good and he aint the man of the ASHES

[luke_the_pom]

Luke, gimme a break. Positive view - HA! Sure you encouraged a dress up day - But you were quick to jump down the throat of 2 people who said they wouldnt participate.

Tall poppy syndrome - what a joke - Jonny wasnt that tall to begin with. In fifteen years time Johnny will still be only remembered for one drop goal in the Final of the World Cup. Has he brought anything else to the game? Not really apart from forcing the management of other Nations to ask their kickers to practicing their goal kicking for more hours each week.

In my opinion Penaltys, Conversions and Drop Goals are worth to many points. Quickest way to improve Rugby is the reduce the value of shots at goal and make teams cross the line to win.

I am just like Burgs - i watched the World Cup final at the pub and I was proud of the effort that Australia put in during the Final and I was just as happy to see the better team win on the night, I have no problems with that.

But in the future J. Wilkinson will not be featuring in any media's Team of this decade. Yes he can kick. but at the moment he is not even doing that. Will the next Barmy Army (Rugby Chapter) be singing "Where's Jonny?" or "Jonny who?" lets sit back and let history decide.

yeah i did jump down their throat because i am dissapointed only 12 ppl voted and 2 of them would not participate at all.... any costume would do is it that hard????
i have put a lot of effort contact Rugby WA on numerous times which led to me having to conatact the Fremantle Dockers about their purple haze day and also contact the English Cricket Board Fans Group.
And listen to you bout attacking people - i was just having a debate about wilko and people have started attacking me personally and my negative views and attitudes!
i have had input bout places to meet up,chants and songs and various other things so i hav had my fair share of positive things thanks!
if im goin to get personally attacked y should i bother with this supporters group

[Burgs]

You seem to be running on heart rather than answering the facts Luke, but so be it.
If you actually read what I write I have said that it is his style of play which is the issue, not the WC Final (ie so not a "one kick wonder" debate).
I would also suggest that if it wasn't for the current reliance on kicking, particularly in the Northern Hemisphere, that there are far better candidates for the English 10 jersey and that he would not have had an International career, ie many games not just a couple.
The "real world for most comps..." you refer to Flat Top is that on average between 4.20 to 7.36 tries are scored per match.
The dour English Premier League still manages to score 3.89.
It is the International game that has been influenced by the Wilkinson’s of the world.
But I'm not talking about high scores anyway, it's intent.
It's the massive cheer that goes up whenever a Captain doesn't point to the posts.
The team that's prepared to have a go, to back themselves to be good enough to cross the line.
Apart from the sake of this discussion, can you honestly say that last seasons England v France fixture to have had a fair result?
England: 2 Tries, 2 Conversions & 1 Penalty= 17, France: 6 Penalties= 18.
Did the better team win there?
Re Flintoff, as I recall Warne actually took more wickets but in terms of influencing the outcome and all round excellence I have no problem rating Freddie Man of the Series. He has played a major part in revitalising the sport in both countries and was exciting to watch, even for an Aussie.
He achieved this respect by blasting wickets and runs, not by bowling maidens and dead batting singles.
Quite a good example to bring to the table Luke, thanks!
Re the All Blacks in '07, they will be delighted to know that you and the "millions of other people you know" have dismissed them already.
They have twice the International depth of any other nation at the moment and only a one eyed fool would predict with any confidence that they will choke again.
They may, but there is no reason to say they will.
The only thing between the All Blacks and their second WC at this point is the host nation.

[Burgs]

all im hearing is cry, cry, cry - typical aussie after loosin the RWC on home soil
yeah back home in england we all know that Lawro and the forwards played a massive part, everyone did!
but u only had to get wilko in the half for him to be a major threat
Wilko was the star throughout the whole tournament like it or not

typical tall poppy syndorme!

It's possibly your words rather than your actions that raise peoples hackles Luke.
There was nothing to provoke this style of smart arse come back in my previous post.
If you have a passion for the dress up day that's fantastic, I'll support it for sure, though probably not in a Yoda suit!
But if someone else chooses to not be involved then that is exactly it, their choice and I'll respect that too.
The negativity that I was referring to (and admittedly shouldn't have) is that the majority of your posts, apart from the dress up day concept, have tended towards bagging ticketing/Rugby WA/prices/peoples chant contributions (without offering your own) etc etc.
Don't you have any opinions on the team, WA Rugby development, other S14 squads or any of a hundred other rugby topics that have been covered on the forum?
If so, please fill us in, if not then let's make it the best most positive dress up day in the Southern Hemisphere, but please, ease up on the attitude!

[luke_the_pom]

look i am 21 yrs of age i have better things to do than keep goin back and forth with you... coz that all that will happen!

we disagree and thats goin to be the case

so say wat u want but it all water off a ducks back to me

[Burgs]

So any thoughts on the Six Nations Squads Luke?

[luke_the_pom]

i like what ever you like

[luke_the_pom]

nah should be a good tournament.... i like the English or the French (hate the french soo much) to win it
dont think wales can repeat their performance last year
irish will be up there
with scotland last followed by italy

wat bout u burgs?

[Burgs]

Wales: Injuries and suspensions will be the story with Wales defence this year.
There are still some great players in the squad though and it would appear the squad is based around the five Cardiff forwards and the six Llanelli backs. The first match against England will probably decide their fate, with the Ireland match also away. A very tough draw to defend the title from. There will be plenty to play for following the Lions Squad backlash and I would suggest that they might just overachieve on potential. Optimist: 1

Ireland: Similar to Wales, Ireland appear on paper to be basically a two club team with nine Munster forwards and seven Leinster backs. This is a year that O'Driscoll, O'Gara, D'Arcy and Dempsey must step up and get reward for all their promise. The only favour in the draw that they have is playing Wales at home and hoping injury may be playing a part for the final fixture at Twickenham. I have a gut instinct saying they will find it hard to maintain their second place. Optimist: 1

France: I still haven't seen a Squad for the French as yet however going on the Wallabies Spring Tour form the French would have to be outright favourites. They have the pick of the draw with Ireland and England both at home. The fever building towards '07 will draw them to the top of their game, hopefully to explode before the WC! Realist: 1

England: I would favour England for second this year. They will get off to a flier with Wales, Italy and Scotland but France at Stade De France will be a bridge too far and their six day recovery for the Ireland match will decide their fate. The Dallaglio story has been a distraction for their build up but hopefully, for them, the squad and especially Martin Corry are professional enough to put it behind them now and get on with their job. England doesn't get the same benefit as Wales and Ireland of so many of the squad playing and training together in their clubs and with all the bad blood between the clubs and the RFU it must be doing Andy Robinson's head in!
Again the main stars are in the forwards but in the lead up to defending Bill there will be plenty of competition coming from the backline. Optimist: 1

Scotland: Without a massive upset in the first round, at home against France, it's looming as another year of tears for the struggling Scotland. For rugby's sake let's hope the change of coach can help rally the Scots to put up a bigger contest this season. With their draw there is a glimmer of hope with Game 1, catch France unaware for a huge upset, Game 2, catch Wales still rattling from taking on the big England pack, Game 3, full of confidence and Braveheart passion slay the Rose at home, ........ but I don't think so. More likely that unfortunately Scotland will lose away to Italy and finish a stone motherless last, a great pity for the game. Optimist: 4

Italy: Azzurri youth is the catch cry this year and who knows, they just might get a couple of surprise victories.
They only have the two home matches so realistically I think they will be competitive but only just manage the win against Scotland.
Every year that Italy plays at this level they gain vital knowledge and experience amongst their players and coaching staff and exposure in a football obsessed country. The likes of their Pacific Tour will further improve their chances in what will hopefully be a more favourable '07 draw. Optimist: 4

So, my guesstimate as to the final ladder, with each of 2, 3 & 4with the chance to go up or down one place:
1- France
2- England
3- Ireland
4- Wales
5- Italy
6- Scotland

[.X.]

Perhaps we can put this debate to bed now before harsh words get said and people get upset.

Luke - your enthusiasm for your Countries Team - England and your provincial team - Western Force are admirable. It would appear that you have taken to heart criticism I and others have levelled at Mr Wilkinson. This is unfortunate and I was not intending to upset you personally.

Your passion to make Western Force “game days” more interesting is applauded by me and others, but you need to realise a couple of facts.

1. The Whole Force membership is, at the time of writing this post, 147. Even assuming that all 147 members are fully paid up financial and seated members of the Western Force. We aren't sitting together. Any song or chant we attempt will be lost in the back ground noise. Any dress up day we have will just be 147 people looking weird scattered all over Subiaco. It would be better to plan ahead for the 2007 Season to attempt to get all Whole Force Members sitting together - then we can do things as a group that will be noticed, that will be effective and will get more of the crowd involved not only with the game, but with us as a group.

2. As you mentioned yourself - "I am 21 yrs of age I have better things to do". Perhaps at age 21 your priorities are different to the other members of The Whole Force. I am almost 36 I have a wife and a daughter. I live in Sydney. Your idea for a Banner is one that I hate - but I chose not to say anything in that thread. My personal opinion of banners is that all they do is prevent people behind you from seeing the game - and if I was behind you, your banner would very quickly find its way in to the rubbish bin.

Luke it is all about priorities - I know when I was 21 I would have thought your banner was a great idea. At 35 I realise that banners aren’t loved by everyone. Sure they look good on TV - But for other people trying to get their monies worth for the tickets they purchased it is a different story. I hope you and your mate will take this advice on board before you take the time and effort in making your banner.

Luke I don’t know the break down of the “The Whole Force” Membership. I don’t know how many people here are 15 or 20 or for that matter 50 or if you are like No.8 pushing 90 and now allowed to wear the gold shorts in Golden Oldies

People see things in their own way, and in their own time. Please take that in to account.

[luke_the_pom]

ooohhhh i think the harsh words have already started my friend!
i am only enthusiastic about the GREAT MAN WILKO!!!! i have had enough of Australian Convicts knocking one of the great England players! no doubt u havent really had a decent number 10...... well i certianly cant name one!
he dominates all over this country and although he hasnt played for a while i still feel he will shit on every one during the 2007 RWC.
now that we all understand how i feel it would probably be better if wilko was never knocked again!
and if he is expect some backlash - you are knocking me hero!!!!!!!!!!!!

WE LOVE YOU WILKO!

[Burgs]

Good thing Wilkinson doesn't miss as many points as Luke.
"What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men."

[luke_the_pom]

yeah forget my last post - it was a stupid drunkin mate!
sorry bout that

[Burgs]

(In my best Moderators voice) Might be as good a place as any to draw the line in the tit for tatting there fellas.

Any thoughts on my Six Nations season preview above Luke?