I don't care, so long as it is "square"

[GIGS20]

It's funny that the same people that are cynical about a greenfield site happening are the same ones proposing that all stages of the proposed MES plan would ever happen either.
Suits an argument I guess.

well with the obvious disclaimer that I can't speak for anyone else, I have always said MES plan takes it up to 25K not 30K, That looks more like stage 2&3 to me, I assume this is the plan (or something like it) that TOV was pushing when the 30Mill deal was announced, that's the best case scenario for regular members anyway, firstly the number of seats is plenty to handle the current membership (I'm assuming corporate boxes are counted in public membership figures), so all existing members would get a seat (be it better or 'worse').let's not forget the current membership would fit (just) into MES now so every seat placed upon the sidelines will mean a better seat for a member and the upgrades happen along the sidelines rather than the ends. meaning that the majority on the seating is sideline (the shed will have to be GA, I can't imagine even Iron members being happy with a dot on the ground in the shed......but stand to be corrected on that point.)

If it ever gets to stage 3 Whoopee! another couple thousand seats on the end, but it's not the plan I expected to see.

Hope this helps the discussion rather than muddying the waters.

[Thequeerone]

Burgs don't understand where you are coming from - are you hanging out for
a: Brand New Stadium i.e. Greenfield site
b: an upgraded Subi with the retractable seating thing

We have been at a couple of international games in rectangular stadiums mainly in the group above pleb and the experience is comparable with the Diamond seats in Subi (don't ask how I scored them one game ! but it was disappointing to compare them to coach class in Newlands !)

[Swee_82]

Here's how I came to a conclusion that MES is the horse to back for now:

1) The state clearly has no appetite for a new, greenfields rectangular stadium. Government commitments during the bid only ran to expanding MES and the Taskforce report has given any government in the near term ample ammunition to say there isn't a case for one. Melbourne proposed one, and are building it, now Adelaide are entertaining the idea, but noone here is giving it serious thought (except us anyway).
2) AFL need a new stadium- even if it is more expensive than a new rugby stadium, there's still more bang for the political buck in building one- it will be the priority and I reckon it's a pretty safe bet it'll be built before a rugby stadium. I also reckon once they've spent a billion+ dollars on a footy stadium they won't be interested in talking about a rugby stadium for a while. MES wouldn't be the final answer, but it might make the next 20 years a little easier.
3) I haven't blindly assumed it would go to stage 4 (though I'd hope so), but still $94 Million to do so is less than half a greenfields development.
4) That a Subi upgrade (assuming MPS is scuttled) makes a compelling case to upgrade the rectangular stuff too, whereas MPS development is still being sold as a 'rectangular stadium'.


I'd love a new, greenfields rectangular stadium without the restrictions developing MES would place on us. I'd particularly love to have it at Burswood as part of a sporting precinct, cos then it'd be an easy walk home too:






I just reckon if I hang out for this, I'm gonna end up with precisely ZIP

[shasta]

There's no option in the poll for us, "Country Members" who'd immediately upgrade if MES or another rectangular option was agreed.

I can't see your reason for such pessimism towards MES to be honest, Burgs. In the present climate it would be necessary to go to stage 3 of the expansion plan ASAP before any move by the Force IMO. I haven't got the costings of those plans to hand (Swee, GIGS?) but perhaps they could even be considerably improved upon with a genuine willingness, which has not been there so far, from all parties to get an acceptable outcome. Everything we found out about, or even more so, what we could not find out about the Kitchener park proposal led me to the conclusion that AFL would have the whip hand and other sports would be the poor cousins.

What happens if it never gets past stage two because of political dithering?
...................... a financially crippled organisation would be my suggestion.

Speaking for myself, but as one of those who put a little time into the effort to raise the debate publicly, I was always keen to get some feedback from RugbyWA as to their views on what we were embarking upon. I would have done nothing if they said our actions were not in their interest. They didn't indicate that. They said our efforts would help them "in the long run".

For now I'm hoping Geoff Stooke and his team in consultation with the ARU are able to get the stadium agenda running in the best direction for the betterment of Rugby in this state. Perhaps it might be time to get some more feedback from them?

[Darren]

I checked out the view of MES from the back corner of the family stand which I would guess are probably the worst seats in MES as it stands now.

They were on a par with Diamond seating I was in for a game last year. The arguement that MES will be a lesser venue for spectators doesn't hold water.

I'll take a crap seat at MES any day over "good" seats at Subi.

Whilst a reduced capacity at MES *may* result in less income for RugbyWA than Subiaco from reduced corporate boxes etc - it is obviously an adequate business model as it was the one they initially put forward when bidding for the 4th franchise.

In my ever so humble opinion - with all the information available at the moment, MES is the only option worth fighting for which has some glimmer of hope for improving Rugby. Some people may feel shafted, but more will benefit.

We Need Corners! Keep up the good fight!

[NTT]

Your right TQ1, diamond seats do rock. Still need the portable hubble though.

[oxleymoron]

Having never been to MES, I'm probably not in the best position to comment, but comparing the seating there to either Canberra stadium or SFS at the ends (from what I have seen on tv), seats at the ends at MES look closer to the action than these other rectangular stadiums.

A middle seat on a flight from Adelaide to Perth and back again, with the potential of a seat at MES is a slightly more appetising thought than a middle seat flight from Adelaide to Perth return with a seat at subi.

[GIGS20]

I haven't got the costings of those plans to hand (Swee, GIGS?)

I didn't see the costings of that plan, and haven't seen the detail of the new plan....the seating numbers don't quite match up so there's a lot of speculation here but the new plan was costed at 30 Mill and projected to 25000 seats, to me that sounds like something close to Option 2&3 I can only assume that the work done on those plans would not have been totally thrown out the window. the 25000 was including filling in the corners of the stands to completely enclose the field, if that's the case, it def sounds like otion 2&3 with a few seats thrown at the corners and the ends remain as they are was costed at 30 Mill.

No, I'm sure it's not the best option for the growth of Rugby in the state. I'm sure a dedicated 35,000 seat rectangle witha a multi purpose otion in a precinct somewhere close to the city with rail and road approaches upgraded would easily cater for future expansion and offer an enhanced spectacle for all current members including those whose memberships have lapsed due to the state of play at Subi, but really wishing for that is like wishing I shit gold bars.......It's a nice wish but it's never gunna happen.

There are two reasons why I push MES, they're pragmatic and cynical, but let's face it we're dealing with politicians and pragmatism is the only solution.
1) MES is the only option we are anywhere near having the political pull to actually get happening, reality states that since we started this thing, the interest from the private sector to talk to us has been zero, media have been limited and only one side of politics has even returned our 'phone calls. That party is now in government and cutting costs do you think we've got any better chance of pulling off approval for a greenfield now than before the election, I'd say not!
2) MES gives RugbyWA the opportunity to build a business case for the construction of the facility that we actually need. Subiaco is not going to do that, with crippling rents and crap product RugbyWA have to put all their energy into managing their current membership. if they move to a stadium where they are the big fish their destiny will then be theirs to decide. Let's face it, if they can't pack out a 25,000 seat MES and have people scalping tickets for stupid prices every game, they don't need (or dare I say it deserve) anything more. If however they can make the model work (Hate to say it but pack the place out for a couple of years and then push membership prices into the stratosphere) local business will begin to see some merit in stomping up a couple hundred mill for a proper rugby ground.

I know that was longwhinded, but I reckon MES is a good option for me and everybody knows I'm just an average punter who digs the ass out of the barrel to afford membership every year!

[shasta]

Whilst a reduced capacity at MES *may* result in less income for RugbyWA than Subiaco from reduced corporate boxes etc - it is obviously an adequate business model as it was the one they initially put forward when bidding for the 4th franchise.

Good point coach. Even at 28000 capacity, I'm pretty sure RugbyWA would grab, say 24000 fully paid up front members and 4000 corporates, with both hands. It would guarantee their future. That in preference to falling memberships and crowds for another six or seven years while they wait for a stadium which may not be converted to their needs at the behest of the WAFC.

I'd reckon there is room for further expansion past 31,000 at MES in the future too. An argument would need to be run that the old grandstand is not worthy of it's heritage listing though. I'm convinced only these old turnstiles and walls........

....................................are of heritage value.


Then we might get something like this artists view of "Perth Stadium"

[.X.]

If we had a blank cheque book I would love to see Perths version of the Gosford "Blue Tongue" Stadium or the New Gold Coast Stadium - both look excellent. But unless Andrew Forrest steps up to construct a brand new stadium for us, we have to settle for an upgraded MES.

But lets get one thing perfectly clear - RugbyWA will not move to MES until MES can cater for all of RugbyWA Corporate needs. Whilst we would all like to think that RugbyWA have us as lowly members and spectators best interests at heart its the corporate and sponsorship dollar that there are worried about first and foremost.

[blueandblack]

If we had a blank cheque book I would love to see Perths version of the Gosford "Blue Tongue" Stadium or the New Gold Coast Stadium - both look excellent. But unless Andrew Forrest steps up to construct a brand new stadium for us, we have to settle for an upgraded MES.

But lets get one thing perfectly clear - RugbyWA will not move to MES until MES can cater for all of RugbyWA Corporate needs. Whilst we would all like to think that RugbyWA have us as lowly members and spectators best interests at heart its the corporate and sponsorship dollar that there are worried about first and foremost.

If we had a blank cheque, I'd take a copy of Suncorp.

[.X.]

If we had a blank cheque, I'd take a copy of Suncorp.

I considered that Mr Blue, but its too big for our needs

[NTT]

Your spot on Coach as RugbyWAs original business model was based on smaller than anticipated membership numbers. Their original forecast was for only 5-7000 members not 23 000. I know i suggested that moving to MES may result in some issues with the corporates but i've been listening to the grapevine a little bit this morning and can inform you that Rugby WA has sent the new sports minister a pleasantly worded letter of congratulations and has stated it's stadium preferences, which is the upgraded MES with the further upgrade. TOV and ALLIA (?) are also keen to get the upgrade moving, the stumbling block being funding of course. Also according to the grapevine there is some support for the rectangular movement from the corporates. The grapevine also tells me there could be some minor issues concerning the catering arrangements at MES as ALLIA has catering rights at MES. When i hear something more specific, concrete and interesting, i'll let yas know.

[brokendown gunfighter]

And we currently average against NZ sides about 28,000...


I'm off for Sydney, goodbye Argentina!!!!

I wont cry for you Burgs

[jargan83]

I considered that Mr Blue, but its too big for our needs

No if we had a blank cheque Suncorp would be taken.

This does go beyond the Force, Wallabies Internationals, Football Internationals (espeacially with all the talk of Australia hosting the Football World Cup)

I'm sure RugbyWA would love to have Suncop in Perth, i think we could sell it out for a semi or grand final.

Best stadium in Australia

*sigh*
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