O'Connor's career in his own capable hands

[travelling_gerry]

• Tim Clarke
• May 18, 2009 - 7:32AM

Western Force coach John Mitchell is in no doubt where teenage sensation James O'Connor will develop quickest - in Perth, and in the full Wallaby squad, to be named later this week.

With none of the Australian sides to compete in the Super 14 finals after the competition merry-go-round stopped this weekend, the four provinces will now begin the internal battle for players - with O'Connor the holy grail.

Retaining the services of the 19-year-old, who was left out of the Force's farewell to Matt Giteau and co on Saturday, is the Force's main mission - with Giteau's old and new side, the ACT Brumbies, the other main suitor.

But in a heartfelt plea from the man who turned O'Connor from sevens sensation to genuine star, Mitchell said he felt O'Connor was a leader not a "follower" - and hoped he did not dispel that appearance by following Giteau to Canberra.

"The boy is not a follower, and he sets his own benchmarks," Mitchell said.
"He has not followed anyone in his career to date, and I don’t expect him to start following now.

"He can make it on his own."

O'Connor has been named in the Wallaby under-20 squad for the world cup in Japan - but national coach Robbie Deans is weighing up whether to trump that call-up with one to the Autumn Test series - where Mitchell believes he should be.

"He is more than capable of playing Test rugby at 15 and learning to play at 12. James is a person who does not lack confidence in his ability, and it is not an arrogant feature," Mitchell said.
"He has physically developed, matured enormously … and is more than capable of playing at that level."

The Force's pursuit of replacements for their legion of departing stars will now ramp up, with Stormers playmaker Peter Grant a definite target, young Waratahs hooker Damian Fitzpatrick in their sights, Brumbies pair Matt Toomua and Christian Lealiifano possibilities - and even former French Test five-eighth Frederic Michelak mentioned.

And Mitchell said the Grant deal - which hinges on whether the playmaker is picked for the Springboks for the upcoming series against the British Lions - could be the forebear for a southern hemisphere "open market" for players.

"We are pursuing Peter Grant and then there's the acquisition and retention of James," Mitchell said.

"It is not a bad proposition for players these days to earn three incomes, Force, Western Province in the Currie Cup and his country.

"And in some ways his situation, if he decides to come, will be unique and it is a signal of a future for Super Rugby that players will be able to play anywhere in the southern hemisphere and still play for their country.

"It won't be long before whether you come from South Africa, New Zealand or Australia, you can play anywhere."

- Rugby Heaven

http://www.watoday.com.au/sport/ocon...1.html?page=-1

[Thequeerone]

poor lad - any young person would be sent into a bit of a spin by all of this intrigue

[mudskipper]

"The boy is not a follower, and he sets his own benchmarks," Mitchell said.

"He has not followed anyone in his career to date, and I don’t expect him to start following now.

"He can make it on his own.", Mitchell said
-------------------------------------------------

I note Mitchell hasn't said here he can make it with my help as coach... but said "he can Make it on his own"...

I think James O'Connor has learnt more from Matt Giteau his season than John Mitchell is prepared to publicly acknowledge… Mitchell implying the leader vs. follower mantra is rather disrespectful to a developing player… Its a calculated flattering attempt to win the young man by encouraging youthful arrogance… A weakness we all have in our youth and one that leads many of us into making poor life decisions...

Talent is nurtured but craft is learnt… Mitchell can nurture JOC but not teach him as a world-class flyhalf or 12. AS we know Mitchell was a forward, a good international No.8 which is a great benefit to Brown and Pocock but not so much to JOC…

We all need to learn form the best, to be the best at what we can be… It’s the difference between understanding how to become a champion or just a contender… For example look at Quade Cooper’s development at the Reds, Quade has plenty of talent but hasn’t grown this year under Mooney and Beale at the Waratahs under Ewan McKenzie was the same…

But the fact is Giteau learnt his trade from Larkham one of the greatest world-class playmakers… This year Larkham in his Japanese off season has been spending time with the Brumbies coaching young Flyhalves Toomua and Lealiifano and these boys have really done well this season… So perhaps JOC could get some Larkham time there as well…

In reality if JOC stays with the Force it will be for short term again cash and there is nothing wrong with that and he can still push for a Wallabies jersey at the Force but as the telling words of John Mitchell said "He can make it on his own"… But on the contrary at the Brumbies JOC has an opportunity to tap into a vast array of flyhalf knowledge… as well as a wide range of Coaching staff...

What will he choose? I guess will find out soon… I think he’ll choose the Force because it offers a comfortable continuity into 2010… & because he can do it on his own...

[Sheikh]

... at the Brumbies JOC has an opportunity to tap into a vast array of flyhalf knowledge…

Or, to put it another way, sit on the bench.

At the Force he can start and there's nothing like game-time to learn.

... as well as a wide range of Coaching staff …

Which isn't available at the Force?

[mudskipper]

Or, to put it another way, sit on the bench.

At the Force he can start and there's nothing like game-time to learn.



Which isn't available at the Force?

Are you saying JOC isn't good enough to get a starting spot at the Brumbies?

And no there currently isn't a wide range of coaching staff at the Force...

[rahrahgirl]

i dont understand mitchell at all.
he said the force signed ben castle so other front rowers could learn from him. he has stated many times that giteau was JOC mentor but now suddenly none of that rings true. i know the force are trying desperatly to keep him but i wish that the petty arguments about developing players were left to the players to sort out with teams. the force dont have the ability yet to make there own stars. although were getting there, were a new team and we need to attract people to the club not hold onto them like the other teams in this country. i just wish we could raid the under 20 world cup and sign players for the long term. we invested so much in giteau and if he hasnt developed JOC and JOC doesnt stay and fill his shoes then its pretty much been for nothing.

[laura]

i dont understand mitchell at all.
he said the force signed ben castle so other front rowers could learn from him.

He did and Ben Castle's contract expired due to circumstances which were inevitable prior to his signing. There's no denying our front row has developed, look at Pek this season, he's on fire!

he has stated many times that giteau was JOC mentor but now suddenly none of that rings true.

They've played/trained together for the best part of 2 seasons, Gits was his mentor and Giteau is moving on and we are looking for another mentor to help him from playing alongside him.

i know the force are trying desperatly to keep him but i wish that the petty arguments about developing players were left to the players to sort out with teams. the force dont have the ability yet to make there own stars.

Pocock & Brown?? Are you denying the fact that they are two of the most competent and successful players at the moment? Their careers have taken off while playing at the Force and despite not making the Wallabies YET Hodgo, Wykes, Hockings & DHP (to name just a few) are set for bigger and better things in the near future.

although were getting there, were a new team and we need to attract people to the club not hold onto them like the other teams in this country.

We are attracting people, our team is very attractive and its foolish to suggest we're holding holding onto all of our players, 10 have just left!

i just wish we could raid the under 20 world cup and sign players for the long term.

Our team already has Dane Haylett-Petty, James O'Connor, and Ben Whittaker representing our side and its not as if the rest of our team are up for retirement. A number of our players (Pocock, Cummins, Hockings, Wykes) only just missed out on participating in the U20 world cup, purely for the fact they're 21.

we invested so much in giteau and if he hasnt developed JOC and JOC doesnt stay and fill his shoes then its pretty much been for nothing.

How can you say that? JO'C has undeniably developed in the past couple of years. He has the confidence to set up play for himself, he has the guts to take on some of the biggest blokes in rugby union, he has become a major playmaker for the Force and most importantly he backs himself. If thats not enough, Giteau has raised the profile of rugby in WA and he put in a bloody good performance for our team more weeks than not. He filled the vacancy at 10 and he did what he was paid for, if thats not acceptable then I think your expectations of him are unrealistic. He is one person and he doesn't have control over everything and everyone. Despite what the media build him up to be he's just an ordinary bloke who wants to play rugby for his country.

[rahrahgirl]

he isnt an ordinary bloke, he is the best player in the country. thats why he got payed so much more than anyone else to come to perth!

Mitchell stated in the argument that JOC didnt follow anyone but was a leader, yet all signs point to them buying someone else for him to follow. im just saying if he is so ready to walk on his own then why spend so much money recruiting an international player to "develop" him when that player may cut and run after a year. i would prefer to buy young players and have them develop here.

and when i say young players, thats what the force did with brown and pocock. they were already playing rugby, the force gave them the opportunity and they took it. hopefully we can do it again with a few more. the force maturied them. but its not like they were seeing a rugby ball for the first time when they got off the plane here!

[laura]

he isnt an ordinary bloke, he is the best player in the country. thats why he got payed so much more than anyone else to come to perth!

He was paid for his ability to play rugby not his ability to change the world and the ability of every other player in Australia.

Mitchell stated in the argument that JOC didnt follow anyone but was a leader, yet all signs point to them buying someone else for him to follow. im just saying if he is so ready to walk on his own then why spend so much money recruiting an international player to "develop" him when that player may cut and run after a year. i would prefer to buy young players and have them develop here.

JOC has developed into a leader during his time at the Force. What is wrong with saying that? Its true, 2 years ago you wouldn't have seen him playing the type of rugby he's playing now. They're not getting someone for him to follow, they're getting someone for him to play alongside and build a combination with. Our international player left after one year because he had already signed a contract with for 2010 prior to signing with us. What is stopping us from signing an international flyhalf for the next 3 years? Nothing.

Its good to have young players, but we also need a few key players who have the experience and maturity to command the team and give the boys advice if they haven't encountered situations before. You wouldn't put a team of 18 year olds into the such a competitive provinicial competition and say go and win us the trophy. Thats unrealistic and has the potential to physically and mentally injure every single one of them.

and when i say young players, thats what the force did with brown and pocock. they were already playing rugby, the force gave them the opportunity and they took it. hopefully we can do it again with a few more. the force maturied them.

Yes, thats whats happening with DHP, JO'C, Whittaker and Turner (when he recovers from injury) and why the Force has an academy.

but its not like they were seeing a rugby ball for the first time when they got off the plane here!

Why would you recruit a player who has never seen a rugby ball before? Obviously you base recruitment on a player's current ability and potential to develop, not the fact that they are 100kg and look like they might be able to catch a rugby ball and run.

[GIGS20]

"The boy is not a follower, and he sets his own benchmarks," Mitchell said.

"He has not followed anyone in his career to date, and I don’t expect him to start following now.

"He can make it on his own.", Mitchell said
-------------------------------------------------

I note Mitchell hasn't said here he can make it with my help as coach... but said "he can Make it on his own"...

I think James O'Connor has learnt more from Matt Giteau his season than John Mitchell is prepared to publicly acknowledge… Mitchell implying the leader vs. follower mantra is rather disrespectful to a developing player… Its a calculated flattering attempt to win the young man by encouraging youthful arrogance… A weakness we all have in our youth and one that leads many of us into making poor life decisions...

Talent is nurtured but craft is learnt… Mitchell can nurture JOC but not teach him as a world-class flyhalf or 12. AS we know Mitchell was a forward, a good international No.8 which is a great benefit to Brown and Pocock but not so much to JOC…

We all need to learn form the best, to be the best at what we can be… It’s the difference between understanding how to become a champion or just a contender… For example look at Quade Cooper’s development at the Reds, Quade has plenty of talent but hasn’t grown this year under Mooney and Beale at the Waratahs under Ewan McKenzie was the same…

But the fact is Giteau learnt his trade from Larkham one of the greatest world-class playmakers… This year Larkham in his Japanese off season has been spending time with the Brumbies coaching young Flyhalves Toomua and Lealiifano and these boys have really done well this season… So perhaps JOC could get some Larkham time there as well…

In reality if JOC stays with the Force it will be for short term again cash and there is nothing wrong with that and he can still push for a Wallabies jersey at the Force but as the telling words of John Mitchell said "He can make it on his own"… But on the contrary at the Brumbies JOC has an opportunity to tap into a vast array of flyhalf knowledge… as well as a wide range of Coaching staff...

What will he choose? I guess will find out soon… I think he’ll choose the Force because it offers a comfortable continuity into 2010… & because he can do it on his own...

My God! how full of shit can one man be.

Muddy. you're setting your own benchmarks as well, but not in a good way.

[Cookie]

JOC will continue to develop regardless of where he is playing,bam bam has developed into an excellent prospect in just 2 years.Good players will constantly analyse their own games and focus on improving with every game.

They will also canvass the more experienced guys for guidance and help with combinations,but ultimately will play the way they want.Reading whats in front of them as dingo likes to put it.

[mudskipper]

So I'm clear here... we all agree with John Mitchell’s statement about James O’Connor "He can make it on his own"... Because thats what the big guy said...

[James]

So I'm clear here... we all agree with John Mitchell’s statement about James O’Connor "He can make it on his own"... Because thats what the big guy said...

Hmm lets see its a toss up between JM and Mudskipper, two wonderfully objective observers, as to where JOC would be better off. One is the players coach who has spent the better part of the last two years with the boy; watching him play, train and learn. The other has watched him on TV five or six times. Hmm let me see.

Honestly Mudskipper, how long do you think he needs to be mentored by Giteau? He's had two years. What does he need four? Six? Eight? Sure he can still learn some stuff from Giteau and still will through the Wallabies but when will he learn to control a game?

I think you give Toomua and Lealiifano more credit than they are due if you judge Cooper and Beale so harshly. Lealiifano has had a number of very average games this season and I don't need to go past the Brumbies v Force game for a prime example. Toomua hasn't played much but he made the critical mistake of not putting the ball out in last weekends game. On the other hand, Cooper is playing in a team bereft of an experienced leader or any experience in the backline for that matter. A lot of his errors are a result of the pressure placed on him as the man in charge of leading a team that is usually on the back foot. He played significantly better when he was with the Wallabies. Beale on the other hand mostly lacks tackling and kicking skills. A defense or kicking coach would be more than sufficient for this mentoring. Matt Giteau could teach Beale almost nothing that a coach couldn't about either of those things.

[mudskipper]

Hmm lets see its a toss up between JM and Mudskipper, two wonderfully objective observers, as to where JOC would be better off. One is the players coach who has spent the better part of the last two years with the boy; watching him play, train and learn. The other has watched him on TV five or six times. Hmm let me see.

Honestly Mudskipper, how long do you think he needs to be mentored by Giteau? He's had two years. What does he need four? Six? Eight? Sure he can still learn some stuff from Giteau and still will through the Wallabies but when will he learn to control a game?

I think you give Toomua and Lealiifano more credit than they are due if you judge Cooper and Beale so harshly. Lealiifano has had a number of very average games this season and I don't need to go past the Brumbies v Force game for a prime example. Toomua hasn't played much but he made the critical mistake of not putting the ball out in last weekends game. On the other hand, Cooper is playing in a team bereft of an experienced leader or any experience in the backline for that matter. A lot of his errors are a result of the pressure placed on him as the man in charge of leading a team that is usually on the back foot. He played significantly better when he was with the Wallabies. Beale on the other hand mostly lacks tackling and kicking skills. A defense or kicking coach would be more than sufficient for this mentoring. Matt Giteau could teach Beale almost nothing that a coach couldn't about either of those things.

So James you Agree with Mitchell's statement "He can make it on his own"...

I'm just interested to see what people really think a 19 kid can do by himself...

[James]

So James you Agree with Mitchell's statement "He can make it on his own"...

I'm just interested to see what people really think a 19 kid can do by himself...

I don't think he can do it by himself. I think he needs someone who is competant playing alongside him at 10. I think Scott Daruda would be competant and Peter Grant would be competant. Then again if you believe Toomua can do it by himself, and I'm not saying I do, you can believe JO'C can too.