Force -v- Hurricanes Post Match Thread

[jono]

Based on the performances of both teams last week this result had a sense of inevitability about it.

[sandgroperrugby]

The last I me I remember a game like that was when david smith put 3 or 2 on us. Lucky savea had butter fingers otherwise it would have been a few more points. It was boys and men stuff in the backs, and the forwards couldn't get parity as the Hurricanes were committed at the breakdown as they have been for the last few games in SA. They had more aggressive hit ups and tackles around the ruck and unleashed the backs. Canes are on song look out.

[andrewg]

The WF ruck stats from last night's game against the Canes.

Attachment 3683

Kane Koteka can stand tall for his debut effort in 51 minutes.
Steve Mafi had a much improved effort and earned 2 TO.
Junior Rasolea stepped into the ruck engagements with vigour but as a result was missing in the Centres.
Ben McCalman another reliable performance including 15 runs for 25m and 12 tackles with zero missed (despite the chaos around him).
Sam Wykes another strong rucking performance, only 7m gain for his 10 runs, 2nd highest tackle count with zero missed and also one of our rare TO.
Good to have Pekahou Cowan back with 3rd highest tackles - 9 with 2 MT (82%).
Brynard Stander soldiered on despite injuring his ankle early - could barely walk at the end.
A lot of Marcel Brache's normal effort was missing (4 runs/8m and 3 tackles/4 missed) but his ruck involvement was commendable: 15 rucks/80%/87%.
Luke Burton also worked hard at the rucks: 10 rucks/60%/100%. (also 6 runs/12m and 9 tackles/6 missed)

I expect the Ruck data for the Canes to be as impressive as the rest of their stats.
Canes 121 Tackles/8 missed (94%). WF 91 tackles/27 missed (77%)

Too many players missing again and the younger guys obviously missing the on-field leadership of Matt Hodgson.
Our leadership group needs to step up big time as Hodgo is not on the field for another 4-5 weeks.

Attachment 3684

Kane Koteka's ruck engagements in his 3 x best 10 minutes almost equals the next best from either team. Great debut effort.

[WFDom]

Are we now caught in a position where Foley won't go back on his decision to make Wykes captain? What do you do when you're stuck with a player playing well below his best just because you've put him in a leadership role?

His decision making is terrible & was summed up when he ran the ball alone after we had just forced the turnover.... giving away the penalty for holding on.

[chibi]

His decision making is terrible & was summed up when he ran the ball alone after we had just forced the turnover.... giving away the penalty for holding on.

That summed up the whole team in one moment.

[Alison]

I agree re Sam and his captaincy. He's too laid back as a person to be shouting orders around and 'managing' the ref etc.

So who to have as replacement? Much as I love Benny Mac, I see him in the same category as Sam personality-wise - he is too quiet and reserved. Pek? Still 'too nice' for mine. Alby? I reckon he'd be the best option!

To me, captaincy isn't just about being a good rugby player, it's also very much about leadership and man-management in much the same way as in any other profession. Good captains tend to choose themselves in my opinion.

Thoughts anyone?

[DazloT]

I'd like to try Alby as captain as well. Although he would probably need to bite his tongue when talking to the ref

[andrewg]

Alby can't play his impact/nuisance game at No 9 AND have meaningful discussions with the ref.
He can't be Captain in the sin bin.

Therein lies the quandry being faced by Michael Foley. There is no apparent leader from the current group.

Despite some perceptions Sam Wykes has been one of our consistent performers on the field.

Until Matt Hodgson is back on the pitch then the leadership group needs to step up show support for Sam Wykes during the game and take some ownership of the problems within their playing area.

ALL of the playing group needs to return to the intensity and cohesion shown in the trial matches and against the Tahs.

It's home truth time this week as too many players have gone missing on match day.

The other concerning area is that there appears little effort to keep the bench engaged, fired up and ready to make a difference when they get into the game. They look very flat and way too relaxed.

[Alison]

"Flat and way too relaxed" - that's it in a nutshell for me I think. I think 'complacent' has been mentioned in some media articles - I tend to agree with that to some extent . I'm sure that's not how they actually feel, but it's how they came across to me in some of their efforts last night.

There's a lot to be done before next weekend I fear.

[WFDom]

I don't think it matters in the slightest who we think "should" be captain.

Foleys not the sort of man to go back on a decision. The only way Wykes will get pulled is if he's injured. Otherwise he's in until Hodgo is ready.

All last season I wondered how we'd go without Hodgo. Unfortunately it's not good

[Tonkar]

Just 2 points I would like to bring to the conversation and I think Foley should bring up with the refs panel...

1) I watched a force game on Fox a yrs back ( I think in Dunedin maybe wrong ) were the force got marched back to the kick position for the players in front of the kicker moving before being put onside... Last night the Canes did it on many occasions and it was not noticed..
Law 11.1
A player who is in an offside position is liable to sanction only if the player does one of three
things:
• Interferes with play or,
• Moves forward, towards the ball or
• Fails to comply with the 10-Metre Law (Law 11.4).

Law11.2
Action by the kicker or other onside player. When the kicker, or team-mate who was
level with or behind the kicker when (or after) the ball was kicked, runs in front of the
offside player, the player is put onside. When running forward, the team-mate may be in
touch or touch-in-goal, but that team-mate must return to the playing area to put the player
onside.
Player made onside by team-mate
Offside player

2) The bad pass that hit Rhino on the melon and we gave away a free kick for the knock on ..
The Canes were given a scrum feed. Sanction is a penalty not a scrum feed
I read the rules
Law12.1
knock-on occurs when a player loses possession( after holding the ball) of the ball and it goes
forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the
ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or
another player before the original player can catch it.
‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.

Sanction: Penalty kick. A penalty try must be awarded if the offence prevents a try that
would probably otherwise have been scored.

[DazloT]

"Flat and way too relaxed" - that's it in a nutshell for me I think. I think 'complacent' has been mentioned in some media articles - I tend to agree with that to some extent . I'm sure that's not how they actually feel, but it's how they came across to me in some of their efforts last night.

There's a lot to be done before next weekend I fear.

Foley in the press conference stated as much. Over celebrating the tahs win.

[andrewg]

Further to my note today at 15:07.

I actually don't expect the Force to win every game.

But I expect seeing our guys play to the best of their ability and gain reward for their hard work on the training track in preparation for each game.
The capability that the playing squad, including the number of NRC players, showed during the trials was impressive. Ball carriers were hitting the line at speed, continuity was maintained with energy , intensity and at speed. The players were supporting each other. There was a sense of urgency. Much of this was still evident against the Waratahs.

Unfortunately, we saw only glimpses of this in the games against the Reds and Hurricanes.

But....we need to be realistic. The Force currently fields a starting XV which has 6 players with Test experience and 59 Test caps. Ben has 38 caps and Pekahou has 10 caps. Doesn't leave many for the others.


1. The Waratahs starting XV had 13 Test experienced players with 549 Test caps. The 4-try bonus point win was unexpected as it was fantastic. In reality we would probably all been happy with a strong performance and a bonus point loss.

2. The Reds starting XV, despite all of the drama and injuries, still had 9 Test experienced players with 278 Test caps. In my view this was the game that got away. We should have come up better after the Tahs win.

3. The Hurricanes starting XV has 9 Test experienced players with 310 Test caps. I didn't expect a win, or even a bonus point loss, but I did expect a good effort. EVERYTHING the Hurricanes did was done with a sense of purpose and urgency. e.g. The move from lineout to rolling maul was done with speed - almost frantic. We tend to give the opposition time to get into place before we start the move. The WF seemed lethargic and unsure of themselves.

I daresay the Coaching team would like the magic recipe to help turn this around as much as we do!

[The InnFORCEr]

I'd like to try Alby as captain as well. Although he would probably need to bite his tongue when talking to the ref

Guess you could say the same about Gregan! Alby for the captains arm band IMHO

[James]

I only watched the Fox repeat of the game (with limited replays and boring bits cut out). I thought our first half was actually pretty good. Yes we weren't winning the collisions and yes we choked on a few opportunities to get some point but if small things had gone our way, we could have easily gone into the second half going neck and neck.

The loss sucks. But so did the two losses that started our season last year. We can right the ship from here.