Western Force 2010 - Strengths & Weaknesess

[The Ethicist]

James - I came across this link from the Brisbane Times which lists the contract termination dates of Force players. It may be useful for your records.

It's 10 months out of date and some of the players listed have been released from their contracts since - and some were out of date when the article was written IIRR - but it gives termination years for Tatupu and DHP as 2010. It does stack up.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/rugb...1124-jcja.html

Great to have you on board you belligerent old bastard
Force bashers will be given the treatment. You have been warned

---------- Post added at 10:04 ---------- Previous post was Yesterday at 23:02 ----------

Thanks for the insight Lee, we don't get to see enough of the young guns over here.
For local reference, Kyle Godwin (one "o") is a product of Aquinas College and Soaks while Ollie is a good Scotch boy via Nedlands. Looking forward to seeing Ollie go around for Scotch again this year, I seem to recall him as the biggest of the Forwards last year and the Coach pointing out to me he was actually younger than most. Pretty sure that was him.

Probably two points of interest here, firstly neither are from powerhouse Hale and secondly WA schooled players are starting to make their way through the junior ranks more regularly. Good signs for the future now that they are being given the opportunities with the code having an improved presence and locals having a better pathway to higher honours. This should also be the case in Melbourne in coming years.

Great point there Burgs
Some of the juniors playing in WA are pretty damn good
The Force will have local talent in the run on team soon

[GIGS20]

The Force will have local talent in the run on team soon

DHP and Keiran have both run on already haven't they?

I'd be concerned about Keiran's chances with the busful of propping talent we've got hanging around ATM, but DHP and Ryan Tyrell are both huge chances of a start this year.

[Burgs]

I think Kieran's chances are in direct proportion to his patience, he is young, his time will come.

[The Ethicist]

There is already a sprinkling of talent but it will become a rush
The NSW and QLD juniors bleed like everybody else. They aren't supermen. The Sydney-centric old school tie brigade like old mate Lee would have us believe the Force will always need eatern states weeners.
Rugby in WA is in good shape AND with names like this current rookie Werner Swanepoel you can expect my South African friends to dominate junior teams and start to arrive in Force colours with 5 star rugby pedigrees
Two African kids from my own junior teams are stars in the making. The old man of one of them played for the Blue Bulls and was a junior springbok. There are a few mouri kids that are as hard as the coffin nail as well.

---------- Post added at 12:07 ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 ----------

I think Kieran's chances are in direct proportion to his patience, he is young, his time will come.

Dunning was brought in to teach the young guys. He is in the twilight of a great career. For all the jokes, Dunning has been almost unstoppable in Sydney club rugby. He is a very good scrummager and has scrummed the best on the planet. he has nothing to prove. Kieren will prosper under his tutelage.

[GIGS20]

I think Kieran's chances are in direct proportion to his patience, he is young, his time will come.

Sure, I was specifically talking about this year.

I would think that he'll be blooded more carefully now that there's soo much beef in the camp!

[Sheikh]

Dunning was brought in to teach the young guys. He is in the twilight of a great career. For all the jokes, Dunning has been almost unstoppable in Sydney club rugby. He is a very good scrummager and has scrummed the best on the planet. he has nothing to prove. Kieren will prosper under his tutelage.

Too right. We saw how Pek came on with Ben Castle around - for all the Teletubby jibes at Dunning he was still a force at Super 14 level before his injury. If he can keep the weight off he'll be a great pick-up.

[normie]

Dunning was brought in to teach the young guys. He is in the twilight of a great career. For all the jokes, Dunning has been almost unstoppable in Sydney club rugby. He is a very good scrummager and has scrummed the best on the planet. he has nothing to prove. Kieren will prosper under his tutelage.

Not to mention Dunnings goal kicking ability....

[Burgs]

Could have taught Gits a few tricks on that front Normie

[ash_twf]

Rugby in WA is in good shape AND with names like this current rookie Werner Swanepoel you can expect my South African friends to dominate junior teams and start to arrive in Force colours with 5 star rugby pedigrees

Swanepoel is from Brisbane (and is obviously of Saffa Dutchman heritage). IIRC, he was the backup scrumhalf for the Queensland schoolboys (and Australian schoolboys?) behind Hamlin (now at the Brumbies Academy), mainly as, I believe, Hamlin was the scumbase partner of Toomua at BSHS.

Swanepoel moved from the Reds Academy to the Force Academy last year at some stage, I think.

Dunning was brought in to teach the young guys. He is in the twilight of a great career. For all the jokes, Dunning has been almost unstoppable in Sydney club rugby. He is a very good scrummager and has scrummed the best on the planet. he has nothing to prove. Kieren will prosper under his tutelage.

Dunning didn't disgrace himself off the bench for the Wallabies. He still has plenty to offer Australian rugby, and I would be starting him and Fairbrother in the front row next year for the Force.

I'd rate the Force as the third strongest Australian team, behind the Brumbies and Tahs, but in front of the Reds. The Force have a good starting team, but just don't have the depth should they lose a few players. Especially worrying (as mentioned), is hooker, lock and 5/8.

Funnily enough, I think the one area of depth for the Force now was a weaker area in previous years - prop.

[The Ethicist]

Werner came West to join the legions in Bokke Town Perth
The name is significant
You can expect the Force to be fielding players with South African heritage in the years to come..........and WA juniors to boot

[pieter blackie]

I'd rate the Force as the third strongest Australian team, behind the Brumbies and Tahs, but in front of the Reds.

Dude lets not forget that the Force beat all the other Aus teams in 2009 so if you want to rate you should place the Force first.
If you look at who went and who came then I think we gained more than what we have lost The Force will be going to battle with a stronger and more experienced field of players. Everybody is worried about depth but looking at the players then I would say we have more depth than in 2009.

The other fact is that the Force finished their season on a high with a win over the Highlanders scoring 4 tries. The Brumbies and the Reds both lost their last matches and the tahs very nearly lost to the poor performing Lions !!

---------- Post added at 08:03 ---------- Previous post was at 07:51 ----------

Werner came West to join the legions in Bokke Town Perth
The name is significant
You can expect the Force to be fielding players with South African heritage in the years to come..........and WA juniors to boot

I cannot wait to see what Rugby is going to look like in WA in 5-7 years from now But it ain't just South Africans, the Pacific Islander contingent is just as big
There are so many brilliant rugby players currently in junior rugby that WA will be able to field 2 winning Force teams

[The Ethicist]

We have to convince the Bro's not to become allblack trialists

[James]

I hate our draw. We have a lot of the easier teams away (Highlanders, Lions, Cheetahs, Reds) and a lot of the harder teams at home (Bulls, Crusaders, Waratahs, Chiefs). There is the opportunity to both cleans up away and at home but it makes every game extra tough.

[mudskipper]

sounds tough but all S14 draws are tough, Highlanders will be tough at home, Cheetahs always are in the heat of the day... Reds will be strong at home and will target games like the Force to pick up some points...

[ash_twf]

Dude lets not forget that the Force beat all the other Aus teams in 2009 so if you want to rate you should place the Force first.

Beating the other Australian teams last year does not necessarily mean the Force is a better team, just like beating the eventual premiers during the round robin does not mean your team is better. Did the Force finish higher on the ladder than the Tahs or Brumbies last year?

Irrespective of last year, I am going on possible matchday 22 squads for 2010. And I rate the Force third on paper. The Brumbies certainly lead the way on paper, with the recruitment of Elsom, Giteau, Valentine, Harrison plus the emergence of players like Toomua, Lealiifano, Ben Alexander, AAC, and then there's Moore, Mortlock, G. Smith. The only real question mark lies over the Brumbies wingers, although Fanifo shows plenty of promise.

If you look at who went and who came then I think we gained more than what we have lost The Force will be going to battle with a stronger and more experienced field of players. Everybody is worried about depth but looking at the players then I would say we have more depth than in 2009.

I'm not too sure the Force has gained more. But I think they did well, all things considering.

I think that Gits is a huge loss. Gits is a test level 12 rather than a 10, but at the provincial level Gits can be an outstanding 10. I think you may be underestimating his loss to the Force.

Pretorius was a very fine player and superb tactical kicker, but has been hampered by injury the last two years and has been a shadow of his old self. At his best Pretiorius almost single handedly kept the Cats and then the Lions in with a chance in a lot of games. I'm excited about his being at the Force and hope he stays injury free, but the likelihood is that he will be injured at some point. And if he goes down, the Force have no five eighth of S14 standard available. I hope Pretorius stays injury free as I've liked him as a player for a long time. But will he be as effective as Gits? Behind a beaten pack Pretorius will probably be more effective, especially when kicking to corners. But Pretorius not the dynamic talisman that Gits can be in the S14.

Regarding experience, you have also lost Pusey, McIsaac, Horua, Mitchell, Pelesasa, (edit Staniforth, Valentine: all experienced S14 (or better) players. In some positions (prop, noticeably) the depth at the Force has increased. In others (wing / fullback, 10/12, hooker) the depth has decreased. All in all I think the Force recruited well, certainly better than can be expected considering the loss of two starting Wallabies (Gits, Mitchell). The Force matchday 22 will be of a similar strength to last year if they had no injuries, which is significantly more than the Reds have managed after losing key players.

I would pick the Brumbies and Tahs as semi final contenders, and the Force should be looking to finish mid-table.

The other fact is that the Force finished their season on a high with a win over the Highlanders scoring 4 tries. The Brumbies and the Reds both lost their last matches and the tahs very nearly lost to the poor performing Lions !!

The last game from a previous season more often than not has no impact on the first game of the next season. Unless you're suggesting form carries on over the off season?