Wallabies v South Africa 18 July 2015

[Ralto]

If you need to compensate for Skelton in the line-out, what superman skills does he have in other areas that makes that worth it? Anyone??

Surely he can kick with those feet

[andrewg]

If you need to compensate for Skelton in the line-out, what superman skills does he have in other areas that makes that worth it? Anyone??

Clearly you're not on the Skelton wagon Alison. You're not a believer!

On G&GR, after the Tahs were rolled by the Highlanders, Happy Hooker wrote in an article (7 Lessons from the Waratahs Defeat):

Skelton "was intensely physical, and was smashing rucks and making big, hard hitting tackles all night. He was one of the Waratahs best and is a unique option for the Wallabies if they can counter his weakness in the lineout."

ForceFan replied:
This beating up of Will Skelton is becoming embarrassing. Yes, his fitness has improved from last year. And lately so has his discipline.
Will had a good game and he lasted the full 80 minutes. But that's at SXV level not Test Level. Last year in Tests he could barely raise a shuffle - most times after only 50-55 minutes.

He made a single Line Out take on the Waratah throw (below his season average of 1.4). The better Australian Locks average 4-5 LOW per game. Some even put pressure on the opposition Line Out by actually stealing Line Outs.
There is no easy way to "counter his weakness in the lineout" and certainly not before the RC and RWC.

He made 5 tackles and missed 2 - 71%. Hardly proof of "big, hard hitting tackles all night".

He made the same number of rucks as Dave Dennis (25) - with about the same arrival time and impact.
But more than Benn Robinson (22) and Jacques Potgeiter (15). TPN and Palu made 20 in 61 mins.

He is a strong supporter of the Waratah ball carriers, but made only 6 Defensive Rucks.

The game against the Highlanders shows the problems of not having two useful locks in the Line Out.
The Wallabies have to at least hold their own in the Line Out at Test level.
I don't see how this is possible if Skelton is selected.

I really struggle to understand why a Waratah experiment has to be forced upon the National team in a RWC year.

There was a follow-up contribution from Hugh Carvill, Waratah supporter and regular G&GR contributor:

The fact is Skelton is one of the few blokes who can offer bruising physicality around the ground. No other locks can. Considering we have been so frequently outmuscled in the forwards, we need every bit of that grunt power.
The stats will never be kind to Skelton. He doesn't make big metres with the ball in hand, because he attracts 2-3 defenders with every run, freeing up space for the next phase. He might not hit a high number of defensive rucks, but he makes crucial big plays not collected by stats- like the time he pushed 3 Highlanders off the ball on the Tahs line and secured a turnover. His maul defence is the best in Australia, but that's not captured either.

And the Benny A's Tackle type of comment really says it all:

Skelton has a couple of weaknesses, not jumping is a big one; but it so so good knowing that he'll take 2-3 South Africans to take him down. Him just being nearby will make room for others. Last time the Wallabies had someone like that?

Convinced yet?

Coz, I'm certainly not!

I hope that we're proven wrong.

[Alison]

You're a star AndrewG :-) Your post convinces me that I'm staying in the anti-Skelton camp!

I know Aus isn't exactly flush with top quality locks right now but picking Skelton largely because he is the size & weight of a small Pacific island doesn't cut the mustard for me.

Size and weight are both necessary ingredients, but so are fitness, rugby nous and a wee bit of agilily. Skelton appears (to me at least) to have little, if any, of those.

England seem to be moving their emphasis away from sheer size and bulk and really concentrating on fitness and skills. For me, that is a much better approach than fielding a lumbering man mountain who runs around the pitch like a bull in a china shop but offers little in the way of skill in the line-out. I guess we'll find out which approach is better come 3 October....

[G_Beard]

You're a star AndrewG :-) Your post convinces me that I'm staying in the anti-Skelton camp!

I know Aus isn't exactly flush with top quality locks right now but picking Skelton largely because he is the size & weight of a small Pacific island doesn't cut the mustard for me.

Size and weight are both necessary ingredients, but so are fitness, rugby nous and a wee bit of agilily. Skelton appears (to me at least) to have little, if any, of those.

England seem to be moving their emphasis away from sheer size and bulk and really concentrating on fitness and skills. For me, that is a much better approach than fielding a lumbering man mountain who runs around the pitch like a bull in a china shop but offers little in the way of skill in the line-out. I guess we'll find out which approach is better come 3 October....

While Skelton is not the be all and end of Locks in Oz, I don't mind the future locking combos of Coleman, Arnold and Skelton, there is the required size, grunt, variety and work ethic there, and in terms of age for position- these blokes are youngsters.
It could be looking good in the 2nd row for a good few years ahead.

[chibi]

Does Skelton have to be a lock? Is he young enough, or talented enough, to be moulded into something else?

[GIGS20]

Does Skelton have to be a lock? Is he young enough, or talented enough, to be moulded into something else?

Like what?

Too tall for a prop, too slow for anything else.

I can see how Skelton has improved his general output this year. Last year, the issue was fitness, he rarely lasted 80 and that has been addressed. This year, he can play 80, but he's still not fast, nor is he particularly smart. Both of these weaknesses could easily be catered for, even taking into account his inability to jump, but to add that to two flankers who don't like the ruck and prefer the glory run and we end up leaving a hellish va lot of work for Scott Fardy.

I think Skeltons biggest problem has been his size, he looks to me like the kid who has played all his junior rugby being three times the size of anybody else. Usually these kids are found out at 14s or thereabouts once the growth spurts kick in and the little guys who have stuck with it finally grow a body to match the lion's heart they've had to develop to stick with the game through such adversity.

Will has Ben the biggest kid on the park until the Wallabies and that means all the classic lessons that other kids have to learn at 15 have hit him now. I call it poor coaching by narrow minded coaches who chase the personal glory of four competition points in age comps rather than teaching Willy what he needs to be ready for the challenge when the other kids get big/good enough to challenge him.

Will MIGHT be a great wallaby lock once all the lessons are learned, and maybe the only way he's going to learn them is in a good Jersey, but to put a test match on the line with him being unsupported in several areas is going to hurt.


And I'm not sure I've stocked up with enough alcohol to dull the pain from tonight. I hope the game plan works around the obvius, massive holes in this team.

[chibi]

I guess I'll take that as a "no" then?

[andrewg]

Does Skelton have to be a lock? Is he young enough, or talented enough, to be moulded into something else?

I think he HAS to be a lock at the moment while he works on fitness and skills.

Have no problem with that at SXV level but I struggle how his efforts at Lock gets him into the Wallabies.

Let him develop as a complete player for the Tahs and select him for the Wallabies when he becomes one.

It even becomes worse when the rest of the back 5 are selected to accommodate a player who isn't one of the best in his position.
If Fardy, Higgers or Simmons get injured the Wallabies have few options to recover the Line Out skills.

[boof1050]

Woohoo I've found a pub with the test on in Geneva. The Clubhouse.

[Ralto]

Like what?

A pianist

[jargan83]

Great try

[GIGS20]

We need pocock NOW. they have picked three 7s and we have picked three 13s, take Kuridrani off because he's been our least effective centre in this game and bring Pocock on.

Shit Hooper would make a good 13, I wonder why everybody thinks he's a forward?

[chibi]

A bit more emphasis on the tighter areas.

[blue]

So far as expected.
Forwards
Beaten at the breakdown no numbers, and ineffective cleanout.
Missing in action, Fardy, Higginbottom & Simmonds.
Ineffective Skelton and Hooper.

Backs
Poor Kicking options.
To much across field runners, no one straightening it up.
Horne out of his depth.

[GIGS20]

Jiggers for Pocock is a start, let's see if one open side is enough