O'Connor officially off to Rebels

[mudskipper]

Yeah, I'm sure you are right Muddie - no doubt the Force management were all about finding a sneaky way to wriggle out of securing O'Connor's signature.

If they hadn't wanted him, all this would have happened four months ago. It is that time-frame that makes the O'Connor version a bit dubious. As he presents it, it was about the rugby and that he wanted to stay. But then it fell over because the Force wasn't interested in recruiting really good outside backs or offering David Pocock another contract - yeah, that sounds likely, who'd want to do that after all?

In the end it was the duration. He made no bones about wanting one year, the Force made none about wanting two. My guess is that his lawyer got cute and tried to load the contract with enough clauses that he could sign for two and get out after one, the Force weren't that stupid and then just got sick of it all.

That, or he was just upping the ante having been given a better offer. That is certainly how it looks when he immediately goes off and signs for two years somewhere else. Maybe Melbourne has committed in writing that they will get Pocock next year, but my guess is that it is just money - nominally less, but with much more third party. If so, I genuinely hope it works out better for him than it did for Giteau. Some interesting parallels with our second year, nonetheless.

The Force didn't win here Andy... there is no prize just a nasty press release by Vern.. i really don't like that tact. What goes on in club business negotiations should be private and respected by both parties... Other players will note Verns behavior, its was a mistake. Verns just tried to save face... its cheap and transparent...I'm not a fan of his work... sorry, but I'd say the same about the pony club... Both teams are in a similar place building from young squads now...

[AndyS]

No, they didn't, there is no doubt that they would have liked his signature. Just not at any cost.

But at the same time, they had to explain why. Even when they did, the first headlines read "James O'Connor walks out on the Force". I have no problem with the idea that what goes on in negotiations should be private, but the simple fact is that in the absence of information people and players will impute motivations, just as you are now. You even said as much yourself - if Vern was "saving face", it immediately pre-supposes that everyone will think he has something to be embarrassed about. That would be far more damaging to the Force's reputation than calling a failed negotiation for what it was, and that would be unacceptable to any professional organisation. And as I've noted, while nicedly weighted, there is little in O'Connor's account to give the lie to the Force's version.

And I think that other players would certainly be well served to note Vern's and the Force's behaviour. Imputing a few motivations of my own, the intent to my mind was to send a clear message after having been jerked around for months, and it is one that many players will probably appreciate - don't waste our time and we won't waste yours. If the Force was prepared to walk away from a genuine talent like O'Connor on that principle, there is no-one should imagine they are irresistible.

[TOCC]

I have to agree with muddy, the press release by the Force seemed like a pre-emotive strike by the management to save face... I don't think the details of negotiating like that should be released, there is always 2 sides to the story.
Why not just say that the two parties could not agree to terms?
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[jono]

Because we all wanted to know why
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[travelling_gerry]

[GIGS20]

I have to agree with muddy, the press release by the Force seemed like a pre-emotive strike by the management to save face... I don't think the details of negotiating like that should be released, there is always 2 sides to the story.
Why not just say that the two parties could not agree to terms?
Posted via Mobile Device

I think you'll find that Vern's press release was written to force members. If it had been anybody other than Rabbit, I think the details would have been kept secret, but to drop the ball signing him would have lost them a lot of members without a damn good reason.

I would suggest that they don't care what muddy, TOCC or anybody else thinks about it, they were looking to secure a confident fan base for next year and (based upon the flow of comments on this site) they appear to have been pretty successful.

As for the actual details......I haven't heard anything about a defamation lawsuit, if things didn't go essentially the way Vern painted it there's plenty to litigate with.....I'd reckon his lawyers would sue the ass off the Force for damaging his 'rugby brand' if there was a shot of winning it.

That's not to say that Vern preached 100% gospel, but I'd suggest the facts are at least defensible and he's just painted them in the most positive light for him.

If that's the jase, JOC's still stuffed up

[todd4]

I agree with Andy and Gigs, I don't think it was a face saving exercise but more an opportunity to explain why such a high profile re-signing did not go ahead.

The Force wanted JOC to sign on for 2 years and if a player is going to sign on with a team they need a whole-hearted commitment from that player.

What JOC wanted was a 1+1. After 5 months of the first year JOC would review whether the Force had lived up to his expectation and if not he would pack his bags and sell his services to the highest bidder and not stick around for the extra year.
Has anyone heard of a player wanting conditions like that before? Can you imagine all the speculation and bullshit in the press next year, will he stay? will he go? will he stay? yada yada, ad nauseum.

And what effect would that have had on the playing group? Would they have felt they were being judged by JOC as to whether they were meeting his standards. He's not the captain, he's not the coach, he is just a member of the playing group. For fucks sake what sort of a pretentious self-serving attitude is that?

I think Vern did the right thing putting that info out there so the fans could make up their own mind. I am glad they had the balls to say no to the 1+1 option.

Having said that I have no bitterness towards JOC I think he was just poorly advised.

I would not like to think that his stay at the Force will be defined by the events of last week. He is an extremely talented player and he brought a lot of enjoyment to the Force fans over the years.

I hope he has a huge World Cup.

[Sheikh]

I wonder how long JO'C ARU top-up was for. Don't the ARU contracts match the length of the Super contract, as negotiating the two always seem to go hand in hand?

[Happy]

I have to agree with muddy, the press release by the Force seemed like a pre-emotive strike by the management to save face... I don't think the details of negotiating like that should be released, there is always 2 sides to the story.
Why not just say that the two parties could not agree to terms?
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The western force / rugbyWA is not a private corporation - it is basically a franchised public company which people are shareholders of. Our annual memberships and pay at the gate tickets are paying for a right to see the outcome of what this company has done with our money. Both the board and players report directly to us - the paying members, both at a corporate level and at the weekly ground game result level - we deserve to know what is going on and what went on! We have voting rights - we don't like the way things are going it is us who have the direct charge to initiate change, we walk with our feet and the club goes broke - plain and simple!

[TOCC]

The western force / rugbyWA is not a private corporation - it is basically a franchised public company which people are shareholders of. Our annual memberships and pay at the gate tickets are paying for a right to see the outcome of what this company has done with our money. Both the board and players report directly to us - the paying members, both at a corporate level and at the weekly ground game result level - we deserve to know what is going on and what went on! We have voting rights - we don't like the way things are going it is us who have the direct charge to initiate change, we walk with our feet and the club goes broke - plain and simple!

No unfortunately it doesnt work like that... are you about to tell me you are a member/stakeholder/shareholder of McDonalds because you buy a Happy Meal every Friday afternoon? No your not...

Companies will continually endeavour to protect there image so that the customers(yes thats you happy) continue to buy there product(tickets, memberships & merchandise).. In this case, the company(RugbyWA) invests money into capital(Players) in the hope that they improve productivity(win-loss ratio) and subsequently attract new customers(thats you again happy) and increase there revenue stream so they can invest further in R & D(training equipment/coaches) and lets not forget, additional capital.

We are going way off topic, but the point is that RugbyWA is a company, it is competing in a competitive marketplace against other companies(AFL etc)....

[Rex Messup]

The bloke was given a deadline and at the 11th hour he was still humping his neighbours dog with no idea about what he wanted to do. His ultimatums were ridiculous and I wholeheartedly support management over telling him to shove it up his @rse.

If he'd wanted to stay with the Force he would have signed the contract.

It has nothing to do with any of the dribble sprouted by TOCC

The Force were over the negotiation. He was given a deadline. There was no common ground, so a decision was made to cut him loose. It's that simple and that complex

[TOCC]

Settle down Rex, i was just explaining to Happy how RugbyWA is far from a publicly run organisation..

But getting back to my original point, regardless of whichever party spurned the deal first, it was unecessary for RugbyWA to release that press release in which they did...

[Rex Messup]

You can't avoid releasing a press release with 1000 journalists ringing you up and knocking on your door every 5 minutes.

I'm quite happy with a two fingered send off

Stick that where the sun don't shine JOC

[jono]

Settle down Rex, i was just explaining to Happy how RugbyWA is far from a publicly run organisation..

But getting back to my original point, regardless of whichever party spurned the deal first, it was unecessary for RugbyWA to release that press release in which they did...

yeah, it wasnt...

if the reds hadve pulled out of the negotiations with barnes a few years ago with the same story, we would have all been praising them for the same thing.
they didnt, they moved hell and high water to change shit for him, and he still flipped them the bird on his way down south

[GIGS20]

I reckon the dealbreaker would have to have been the win loss ratio one......the more I think about that, the more I'm convinced he was telling his teammates that he wasn't the problem......How much more Giteau can a bloke get?

Any administrater who let's that one slip through will have a team of one very quickly!

As for TOCC's assertion that we're not members but customers I agree. to extend your McDonalds argument, all RugbyWA has done is told us that they're discontinuing the sale of Happy Meals because it was found they're bad for our health!

Protect the consumer base TOCC, you sound like you know enough about economics to get that one!