The Wallabies - An Opinion

[SNOB]

I think X is onto something re playing some of the lower teams BUT the reason behind it is of RAs making! If we were to be playing the lower teams we would basically be using it as a development exercise. As much as we need the equivalent of the NPC here we need to go back to having a Wallabies A team which I believe we used to have. Everything that seems to be wrong with Australian rugby seems to come back to development and levels that seem to be missing.

[Sheikh]

I think X is onto something re playing some of the lower teams BUT the reason behind it is of RAs making! If we were to be playing the lower teams we would basically be using it as a development exercise. As much as we need the equivalent of the NPC here we need to go back to having a Wallabies A team which I believe we used to have. Everything that seems to be wrong with Australian rugby seems to come back to development and levels that seem to be missing.

Yes, an Australia A side that was playing the likes of USA, Uruguay, Canada & Chile in this window and Georgia, Portugal, Spain, Romania in the November window would be an excellent idea, giving more rugby to the next level of players.

For the Americas tour we could lobby World Rugby that it's a development tournament and get them to contribute; and the European trip would be an adjunct to the main squad, so not as costly as a stand-alone tour.

[Burgs]

100% continue to support the need for an Australia A program.
Either as suggested against 8-15th Ranked Nations (even the occasional lower) or travelling concurrently with the Wallabies and playing against Provincial (eg Pampas XV) or Rep (Māori ABs) on the Friday allowing Wallaby Squad not playing on the Saturday to keep match fit.

[chibi]

I wonder if a full season of Australia A and other Australian first class teams playing touring sides would be a better situation than Super Rugby? Let the top players earn a living overseas, pump that wage money instead into development and structures. Use the locally-based players in a season of representative rugby against tourists. Play the games around the country as mini-events. Bring the overseas guys back for tests or even the odd A game if the regulations allow

[GIGS20]

I wonder if a full season of Australia A and other Australian first class teams playing touring sides would be a better situation than Super Rugby? Let the top players earn a living overseas, pump that wage money instead into development and structures. Use the locally-based players in a season of representative rugby against tourists. Play the games around the country as mini-events. Bring the overseas guys back for tests or even the odd A game if the regulations allow

Back it up with a genuinely national domestic league and I can see some merit.

[Hansie]

Back it up with a genuinely national domestic league and I can see some merit.

Ultimately it will come down to revenue. Would Australia A vs Springbok A fill Optus?

I still believe it to be a cultural issue. Why do more punters watch Shute shield than the Tahs? Why are kids turning to League and AFL rather than Union? Surely our product appeals more? We are genuinely international, an Olympic sport, are as much a collision sport as those other 2 etc etc.

[shasta]

Why are kids turning to League and AFL rather than Union? Surely our product appeals more? We are genuinely international, an Olympic sport, are as much a collision sport as those other 2 etc etc.

Go to Melbourne and try to rationalise the merit of international competition. They just don't care. League supporters OTOH are totally supportive of rep football. Limited as it is. Your point about ZA players willingness to "die" for the jersey is most evident in the Qld Origin team - and the NSW team is getting there. Mal Meninga has made it his mission to bring that back to the green & gold. Those are just facts of the sport landscape here.

As far as "collision sport" IMO that's where both Rugbys have gone wrong over the past 30 years. I want to see games where players run into space at speed.

[Burgs]

As far as "collision sport" IMO that's where both Rugbys have gone wrong over the past 30 years. I want to see games where players run into space at speed.

Which is potentially the point of difference in winning the hearts and minds of mothers without a Rugby (or sport?) background?

[GIGS20]

Ultimately it will come down to revenue. Would Australia A vs Springbok A fill Optus?

I don't think it really needs to, if the economic model doesn't suit it being played at Optus, play it at HBF.

I still believe it to be a cultural issue. Why do more punters watch Shute shield than the Tahs? Why are kids turning to League and AFL rather than Union? Surely our product appeals more? We are genuinely international, an Olympic sport, are as much a collision sport as those other 2 etc etc.

I think the issue you talk about are because of the continued mismanagement of the union. Poor marketing of the options, poor support of the expansion teams which has resulted in both of them leaving the comp in the last 10 years, poor personnel development (players, coaches, administrators etc) poor use of the funds that have been funnelled into the code since 2000 because a few people demanded their slice of the pie. In general, every time an important decision has needed to be made, they have jumped the wrong way, usually because some incompetent is making the decision because he was put there by politics and not merit or because some powerbroker thinks it will negatively impact his "turf"

[Burgs]

I'll admit to being arms length in all of this, but surely there are different issues between retaining (existing) Juniors v attracting (new) Juniors?

I am a little closer to PSA Rowing at the moment and I'm told my school is seeing a really big influx of Year 9's this year, despite no win for a couple of years, "because they all want to get ripped". That's is, the participation and being on the water is almost a secondary consideration to smashing iron in the gym. Not sure how much "smashing iron" is actually permitted for 13-15 year olds, but that is the perception and "perception is reality"...

[chibi]

Ultimately it will come down to revenue. Would Australia A vs Springbok A fill Optus?

I forgot to mention, the A matches wouldn't be able to generate revenue in the same way as the Optus tests, I agree they won't be able to fill the ground. But I don't see them as a replacement for, nor alternative to, those big Optus occasions. Instead, I see a series of rep fixtures as a replacement for Super Rugby; a replacement for the Force vs Pasifika, Rebels vs Hurricanes, Tahs vs Highlanders etc...
Can rep fixtures along the lines of such as:
-the A internationals as you mentioned
-the old Sydney rep XV Vs Samoa or any touring side
-Queensland vs NZ Maori or a European club
-W.A. Force/Gold vs New Zealand Heartland or a Currie Cup side
-NSW vs the Barbarians
-tour matches for visiting test teams before Wallabies tests
-State of the Union,
and so on... Can they do any worse than the current Super Rugby situation? We could see a pretty varied season each year, with a lot of different visiting teams and domestic match-ups, some of which should be major enough fixtures to draw a decent crowd. A game like Queensland vs England or NSW vs Emerging Springboks should be well marketed enough.
The Wallabies' test matches would still exist above that.

Back it up with a genuinely national domestic league and I can see some merit.

Yes I would definitely be having a third tier under that. How it would look, I don't know. I remember the NRC ran on a model that broke even, maybe the third tier could be propped up by the test match and rep fixture revenue? I certainly wouldn't be giving away the games with free entry though.

I still believe it to be a cultural issue. Why do more punters watch Shute shield than the Tahs?

And that makes me wonder if the third tier could be a compromise between that traditional Syd/Bris club base and the other "expansion nursery" States. A mix of traditional clubs from Sydney and Brisbane, plus the Force/Gold, Rebels, Brumbies/Vikings/Kookaburras, Adelaide(?) and some kind of regional input? It could be one league, but doesn't have to be; could be three separate ones to keep up the local tribalism (Sydney, Brisbane and Australian Rugby Shield) with a crossover finals magic weekend and a championship final day broadcast on free-to-air. During the regular season, the Shield league can only have the away games broadcast on free-to-air in their respective markets; or in Sydney and Brisbane, the match of the day only. I'd also have a weekly highlights show covering the domestic fixtures and the week in international rugby.

So the three tiers would be:
1. Test matches
2. Rep fixtures with A games, state games, tour matches.
3. NRC-modelled third tier utilising both the traditional and the national expansion, which could be the weekly bread-and-butter.

I wonder if that would be sustainable? The fault that I see in this, is that the second and third tiers in my scenario would be missing all the top players who would be in Europe. So whether those two tiers can draw a crowd without them, would remain to be seen.