and yet not as sad as your whole life, chap!
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When I was rowing there was only one acceptable level of effort in a race, everything you have - nothing left in the tank. Some of the people I trained with went on to represent Australia, some of them already were Olympians. We were all amateur sportsman, that were training 14 times a week. The guys (and girls) who made it into a national crew when training for international level were training three times a day.
Yet for some reason we are meant to celebrate professionals who only competed 16 times in a year unless like Adam Coleman they were out injured for a few games because they are training hard?
I am pretty sure that our money is just as good as anyone else's and success as a coach here at super rugby level is just as valid as anywhere else. Yet we must be grateful that someone show up to grace us with their presence?
It doesn't matter why a competition or race was created, there is still only one acceptable attitude towards it, all out, nothing left in the tank we go after a win. The fact that something less then that is ever considered acceptable probably explains why the Force simply don't show up to play sometimes.
We might not win anymore games then we currently do, but at least we would see a team that was getting the absolute maximum out of themselves.
Yep, that kind of reflects my thinking. Anyone who has been here any length of time will know just how much I have supported the concept of a lower tier comp, but I'm finding it very difficult to really stand behind the Spirit given their current approach. Player development should be a product of the comp, not the sole objective. How long has Australia envied NZ their ITMC/NPC, but do they just look at that as a lower level extension of their SR teams?
I was just watching the Southland-Waikato match and it was an interesting comparison...does anyone think Jamie Mackintosh or Sopoaga have anything to prove, 'cos I don't. Yet there they are running around for Southland, not because they need to but because they want to. Perhaps the big difference is that that was their club long before they got a professional contract, and no-one suggested directly or by example that it was actually a meaningless comp that was probably beneath a professional player. They've even got SR players playing another level down in the Championship, so you'd have to wonder why.
If they didn't do it every year, you might still imagine it is because the RWC is a tough tournament and they all know another 'Donald' moment could happen. Back in 2007 Cam Shepherd went from the ARC one week to the Wallabies the next, so it would hardly be surprising. You would have thought anyone who might actually think they were even remotely in the Wallabies frame would be out there playing the house down, because effectively they probably are. I'll go out on a limb, but I bet if they come looking for replacements players anyone just having the occasional trot is not going to be anywhere near in the frame.
Exactly AndyS.
andrewg must be on the payroll trying to justify his job with all that drivel.
As Anrew g
"but right now I'm happy to back the coaching team and the leadership group's view of what IS & COULD be rather than your view of what SHOULD be."
I too back them and have faith that they are doing what they believe is best for our team.
Any comparison between the NRC and Shakey Islands' ITM cup has to recognise that in NZ rugby is "the only game in town".
The Region v Region games in NZ have always been legendary and have a long history - even tradition.
Not only does NZ have their equivalent to our Premier Grade on a local level but a loooong history of an ITM Cup competition with regional honor and pride at stake. In many areas this competition is more important than Super XV results. SXV players return to their roots to play in the ITM. We are a long way from lifting the NRC to this status (if it is even possible).
It's pleasing that the ARU has made a longer term commitment to the NRC. It will continue to grow.
But it serves a different purpose to the ITM Cup which has amazing local sponsorship and support.
Will we ever have this level of sponsorship or support in WA?
I very much doubt it. It may arrive when the WF is built on predominantly local talent.
And that will take a loong time.
Recently I held a quiz night for 50 people. Only 2 people could answer correctly that the Western Force had just completed its 10th season.
The history may well be true AG, but they most certainly didn't get there by shrugging their shoulders and just using the NPC to give everyone a bit of a run. By that argument our Premier rugby isn't as good as the East, so we should just accept that it doesn't really matter for much and it is only a selection trial for the Shute Shield and the odd player for the NRC. Ultimately you are saying that as we are not as good straight out of the box, we shouldn't really bother trying...seems a little unambitious.
AndyS
There is little doubt that our Premier Grade IS NOT as good as the Shute Shield or Brisbane Premier Comp.
If we can't accept that then we're just being delusional as it's a matter of numbers, supporters and sponsorship.
NSW and Qld are the rugby states and the main kindergardens for senior players.
It doesn't mean that we shouldn't stop growing the game, but for my lifetime in WA I expect Rugby Union to play 2nd fiddle to Aussie Football.
Big difference between acknowledging it and accepting it. If you accept it, why bother changing it? The ARU accept we aren't as good, which is why they give so little funding. Never mind that it is precisely because they have never provided funding - it is the way it is, so the way it is going to stay. WA will be good for a bit of Test match cash and useful as a feeder club and rehabilitating near lost causes, but nothing much more.
To be honest, I think there are a lot of people quietly cool with that.
As a stray thought, all you've said about NZ is true. And when you look at the history, you'd have to accept that they have always basically been the better team. That being the case, perhaps Cheika should just use the RWC to blood and develop some young players...?
A bit of perspective, James Lentjes the Highlanders openside flanker played in the Super 15 final, had one week off and ripped straight back into Dunedin club rugby. The Highlanders forward pack on the Wed before flying out to Wellington on the Thursday for the Super 15 final all went out pig hunting running up and down hill's chasing pigs through the bush.
Jamie Joseph had no problem with this because that's what they had been doing all season.
The medical staff here monitor player fatigue overload bullshit with GPS crap, graphs and whatever else is new on the market and look for ways to keep players off the field rather than do their job they were employed to do and get them back out on the track ASAP.
I would never accuse any of the players of not trying their absolute best come match day but they haven't been given the correct preparation in my opinion anyway.
If anyone has had the opportunity to sit down and have a beer with any of these guy's you would know that they are all genuine good solid buggers and empty the tank every time they play but they simply don't get the game time under their belt to close matches out and in the NRC this has been glaringly obvious.
Old saying that has stood the test of time 'When the body goes the mind goes with it' hence the taking of easy options and penalties and yellow cards that go with the territory of not being match fit.
Hitting shields and running laps along with whatever the latest aerobic thing is will only get you so far.
You will find that there is a gradual mindset set change happening back to a bit of old school in the professional set up's in NZ anyway.
And where did the highlanders finish - with their no name forward pack?
At the opposite end of the table!!!! Plus travelled to win it.
andrewg you are full of excuses.
I'm NOT one of them!
If you remember I tried to get some discussion going on the "uneven playing field" but didn't get a lot of interest.
I'm not going to give up because IF the ARU is REALLY interested in growing the game in WA (and I'm not convinced that they are) then it has to do a lot more to support success for the Western Force.
The ARU made a step in the right direction with the $0.5M for the WA Rugby Academy (which did replace the $0.25M that they'd previously taken away).
I'm excited by the players such as Nick Jooste who's had some exposure in the U20's and now NRC.
He has the potential to be better then Jack Debreczeni for the Rebels (who is 4 years older).
We have to be patient as developing local talent is a longer term proposition.
I'm more confident since the NRC was put in place.
If memory serves me correct I think the WARU had about 5 development officers going round the schools about 5 years back. Now down to one who is also wearing another 3 or 4 hats as well. Does anyone else think the top ups for Karmichael Hunt and others is money well spent.
I'm with Westie. Our guys may have been as fit and as strong as the Highlanders, but in comparison, they were as soft as shit. Look at the way their forwards hit the opposition whether on attack or defence. Compare that to poor old Sammy or the plod division we had to call our front row. Pinch tests and beep tests might say that a player is fit enough but it doesn't mean he's hard enough to win a comp.
this is about views in relation to what is and isnt happening in the world of professional rugby some opinions are from the coal face others are people reading between the lines and some opinions from eras past
there opinions may not be positive all the time but they are there opinions
have you also commented on all news sites over the last week about the negative news coming out of the GC with woman beated to death kilos of crac taken from the streets etc. take your negative attitude to a world of make believe
if you cant take what is being posted I suggest you return to re runs of romper room 7 mile has refrained from posting lately as most of the time the post stops as he nails the truth right from the start but it is positive to see there are real rugby followers out ther not willing to accept this shit.
I am at kala watching the new generation of wasted talent slip through the RWA s fingers
I have no relationship with any team today but are still committed to grass roots rugby are you here today G Man
cant see Martin Becker anywhere those Westie Juniors must have put an axe through his back not a butter knife
I'm not at Kala this morning, there will be some good rugby played. Enjoy!
Will you be cheering on the winning sides or just telling the defeated how rubbish they are?
Will be at Kala tomorrow morning for a little after junior season catch ups with a couple other teams in the same age group that I coach.
I will be at the Spirit later and will try be there for the curtain raiser.
The initiative that I said I liked that helped kick off this debate.
Now you know my itinerary, would you like to discuss rugby in all its forms (my favourite subject)? - so we can minimise the amount of keyboard posturing.
Fail to see how the news of a domestic abuse occurrence in the GC has any relevance to the rugby discussion here. But sure why not add the refugees, China's slowing economy and global warming, New Zealand's flag change and will they change their name to 'Shiny & New Zealand'. Lots to talk about.
I do find it hilarious that you would prefer to huddle under a bridge and behave like Emo/Goth school kids and keep whining about how everything is bad, and it's not fair, and they've got stuff that we don't.
With out this turning into another shit fight, have the next word on the forum, then hopefully we can have a civilised chat at a local game. - after a previous unfortunate outburst of mine it's not hard to know who I am.