Hold..................................Engage!

[Ecky]

Thanks for the feedback guys, especially Frontrow.

I've just watched my game again (yes, we have the games filmed and we are miked up) and I wasn't as slow on the "pause - engage" as it felt during the game. Mostly. Crikey I'm good! One of the most modest people I know too

Some scrums had some instability after the "touch" so they took a bit longer...

[Burgs]

Is the match filmed or is it RWA focusing on the Refs Ecky?
ie General footage or specific teaching aid type of thing?

[Ecky]

It's the match that is filmed. Ref is wired up and we use it as a coaching/reviewing tool but RWA also gets a copy. Dunno if the teams get a copy as well but I know they can request it from RWA.

All games from colts to 1sts are filmed - that is all games played on the same pitch as 1st grade.

Early on in the season there seemed to be no end of problems with the microphones working, which was a shame because it is very helpful to me if I can hear what I said, what worked, what didn't etc.

...and I have no idea if Sportsears would pick it up, I doubt it. Just a standard handheld CB type radio would probably pick it up, for those fans who really want to know exactly where we picked that infringement from...

[travelling_gerry]

wow...well done Ecky......

[Burgs]

That's pretty handy none the less, do you find it helpful reviewing them?
The visual bit I mean, you answered the audio

[Ecky]

wow...well done Ecky......

Thanks! But it wasn't me what organised it, I just benefit from it like 14 other refs per week.

That's pretty handy none the less, do you find it helpful reviewing them?
The visual bit I mean, you answered the audio

Absolutely! For those of us either already doing it or aspiring to referee 1st grade, it is very valuable. Not so much about the decisions (as we should already be getting them right - mostly) but our positioning, how we move from one phase to the next, whether we miss things because of said positioning, how we can improve that part of the game, etc.

It can be a real eye-opener when you think you are doing one thing but you can see you're not. (Like my scrum engagement calls from Sat!)

Also, some gounds are better for filming than others. Paly for instance seems great because of the balcony on Crystal Palace, but it's facing west, so sunset during 1sts can be a drama. Same with Wanneroo to some extent.

Soaks, Uni, Perth, Rocky all good because they have high points from whence to film. Others they use scaffolding. (Paly they generally go to the stands on the other side)

[Burgs]

Watching many of the Test Refs I am constantly bugged by what I think is being too close to the action and often blocking around the scrums and rucks/mauls.
IMHO not only are often "in the way" but they perhaps miss some errors from being too close and not having a wide enough sight line.
Obviously a different code but it is interesting in mungo that the Refs main focus is the 10m offside.
Do you think that is a fair call or does the Ref really need to be that close all the time?

[Ecky]

Watching many of the Test Refs I am constantly bugged by what I think is being too close to the action and often blocking around the scrums and rucks/mauls.
IMHO not only are often "in the way" but they perhaps miss some errors from being too close and not having a wide enough sight line.
Obviously a different code but it is interesting in mungo that the Refs main focus is the 10m offside.
Do you think that is a fair call or does the Ref really need to be that close all the time?

Would this be a can of worms ye be opening?

I think you will find they are not "in the way" very much at all. Generally they stand to one side and if someone collects them, well, they weren't going in "through the gate" at a tackle, ruck or maul. At a scrum, again, they will follow the ball line but stand out from the scrum. If the opposing #9 runs into the ref then the 9 is too far from the action. Anyone else runs into the ref they are offside. (Generally, especially in the games on telly).

By "miss some errors" I guess you mean "miss some infringements" - and I also guess you are referring to what ever happens post-tackle (ie ruck or maul). You gotta referee the tackle first. Interesting observation by a RWA coaching co-ordinator the other day that it seems to him that most 1st grade coaches do not know the tackle law.

At the tackle, the tackler (who, by the way, is the player who goes to ground with the ball carrier. A player who brings the ball carrier to the ground but stays on his (or her) feet is not, in law, a tackler) must release the tackled player and then move away. Then the tackled player must push, pass or place the ball, then move away. And then the arriving players must do so "through the gate".

All of this happens rather quickly, even in community rugby, so you gotta be close enough to see that all these things happen, especially the first two bits.

Now I feel like I am preaching so I'll leave it there. And maybe continue in a new forum sometime soonish.

Suffice to say, though, that in mungo, at a tackle, everyone stops, dusts themselves off and starts again. So not much to referee at a tackle and the offside is the main (most common) infringement.

OK I've stopped now. Sorry for hijacking the thread Jess

[shasta]

I'm sure Ecky will give a better answer but the RL referees stand on the 10m partly to give the players a mark. They don't need to be closer in most instances as the ruck is a lot simpler.

[Burgs]

No, all interesting Ecky thanks.
Hard to describe with words my true meaning re being "too close" but we can leave it at that for now.
Will be interesting if the Stellenbosch Rule re being (was it 5m or 10m ) back from the scrum comes in if perhaps a Touch Judge takes on that role as it would be pretty hard to be giving full concentration to the Scrum and encroaching player 20m away as well.

[Ecky]

I'm sure Ecky will give a better answer but the RL referees stand on the 10m partly to give the players a mark.

While I agree that is probably why they stand there, it still amazes me. The pitch has lines across it every 10m, doesn't seem that hard to me to figure out if I'm 10m away from the play-the-ball.....

Will be interesting if the Stellenbosch Rule re being (was it 5m or 10m ) back from the scrum comes in if perhaps a Touch Judge takes on that role as it would be pretty hard to be giving full concentration to the Scrum and encroaching player 20m away as well.

Stellenbosch Rules are to be used in the ARC coming up - this'll be where we can see them for the first time.

And I imagine the TJ's would be utilised to help with the 5m offside at scrums

[AndyS]

Out of curiosity Ecky, any idea where they'll be getting the referees from for the ARC and whether they'll be getting any practice/training on the full set of Stellenbosch rules prior to the start of the comp?

[prop53]

The other way round this is one warning do it again short arm penalty. None of this reset up to four times. Its also surprising how quick you learn if this was the norm.All the refs are doing is slowing the game down to the other codes level. Not good to watch and not good for the Props to keep re-setting. On what is a lot of time the Refs inconsitant calls.
Maybe all Refs should be sent to Scrum School ?.

[shasta]

All the refs are doing is slowing the game down to the other codes level.

An interesting point. Off topic, I know, but That's among my many gripes with what they've done to League. They've taken away nearly all opportunities to contest posession.

If I were coaching RL I'd spend a little time drilling my team on scrummaging. You still see, rarely, where a team will put on a decent shunt and win a tight head. It's not illegal to contest at the scrum just difficult. I'd definately use it sparingly as a surprise tactic to get out of pressure situations.

I just hope that RU will not do the same in the name of securing new followers.

[AndyS]

Doubt it - they'd lose far more supporters than they'd gain, especially in SA and Europe. If that weren't the case, RL would be far bigger than it is.