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Thread: NZ & Resting Players?

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    Senior Player luke_the_pom's Avatar
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    NZ & Resting Players?

    Just after a few opinions.......

    Does anyone think that the NZ squad being rested for some of the super 14 could back fire on them?

    At the moment are the players just training and thats it?

    Will they be prepared enough?

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    Player Nick's Avatar
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    This may intrest you;

    All Blacks assistant coach Steve Hansen says the physical and mental gains of the team's controversial reconditioning programme are plain to see on the 22 resting players.

    The squad has been in Auckland for a second training camp this week and will have another get together in Wellington before they rejoin their Rebel Sport Super 14 franchises for a return to playing action in late March.

    Hansen, the forwards coach, detects some real freshness about the players as they work on a strict training regime from Monday to Friday and then have weekends off.

    He believes any initial reservations from the players have been quickly overtaken by the benefits they are feeling in their bodies and minds.

    The All Blacks management see that as crucial in this World Cup year with this group of players clearly having a foot on the plane to France in September.

    "I don't think there's any frustration (in not playing at the moment)," he told Xtra Rugby.

    "What they have come to realise is that this break is what they really needed. They may not have realised that prior to it but now that they are getting the work done, they are realising it's beneficial to them.

    "When the time comes to go back into playing they will have all their niggles tidied up and they will have had a preseason which most of them would never have had since they started playing professional rugby."

    The players are on individual training regimes based mainly around gym and running work. Results from testing in Auckland have been impressive. More skills and rugby-specifics will be introduced at the next camp.

    "We're really very pleased with the outcome of what we have done so far," said Hansen.

    "The players are looking great. Physically they are putting up personal bests in the gym and speed-wise as well. But just as importantly they are very fresh mentally . It's all going well."

    Their transition back into playing is being carefully planned. They will get one week back with their franchises where they start upping their training. That will come after their Wellington camp. The next week they will train fulltime with their sides and be available for selection, probalby in round eight of the Super 14.

    "The key thing we are doing here is giving them the opportunity to get their bodies and minds right and to get the enthusiasm levels back to the stage that when they are ready to go back and play they are really hungry," said Hansen.

    "You can start to see it in them now. They are looking forward to it whereas a month ago that wasn't there. Getting that chance to recharge the batteries will allow us to have an intensity later in the year that we haven't been able to see from individuals for a wee while."

    Hansen senses the reconditioning stars are enjoying a nine-to-five type existence for a change.

    "They work from Monday to Friday and have the weekends off. That is allowing them to do things they haven't been able to do for a long time - a lot of family time and stuff like that. They can plan around those two days off like most people do. They are leading a bit more of a normal life at the moment."


    Personally I think it's great - I have commented on this a few times now and it gives an opportunity to the NZ players who get a hell of a lot of Rugby a chance to have a proper pre season Jerry Collins even gets to have shoulder surgery before it's completely buggered, something that he wouldn't normally get a chance to.

    If you look at Gregan you can see a difference having a break has made to his game.

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    Veteran Contributor frontrow's Avatar
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    I hope it backfires on them, it is disgraceful to take talented players out of the game they excel in to watch from the sidelines, and does nothing for the super14 competition...I can't wait to see them justify this if they lose the world cup, or if they don't even make the final....Heads would definately roll then...

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    Player Nick's Avatar
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    Hey Frontrow, I get the feeling that we may have very opposite views on this one...

    I will be very surprised if by the end of the S14 competition if The Blues, Crusaders, and Hurricanes aren't somewhere near the business end of the S14 finals. Come to round 7 and they're all back to play the final rounds I have the feeling there might be one or two Kiwi teams still dominating.

    The Guys who return have half the super 14 followed by international games with France then Canada, followed up by the Tri-nations..

    Which team do you think will stop the "rusty" AB's to making the Semis? Italy, Scotland or Romania...

    The great thing about the World Cup is that come the Semis and the Finals themselves it's do or die and they're are 4 great teams in it at the end.

    Do you really think missing 6 rounds of S14 Rugby will be the factor that stops the All Blacks?

    Watch for 22 players keen not to lose there spot to the guys who have been playing i.e Ruben Thorne will be watching Troy Flavell very anxsiously. The Depth is there ask any team that has to play them between now and when the 22 return.

    If the AB's lose there is always and will always be a backlash in NZ if the 22 played do you think after the build up the AB's have had the public will be anyless ferocious...

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    Senior Player luke_the_pom's Avatar
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    just using Dan Carter as an example.....

    when was his last serious game? and when will his next be?

    its a long time in between games isnt it

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    Veteran Contributor frontrow's Avatar
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    I don't really have any complaints about how you see it nick. In fact i can see what you are saying has a lot of benefits, i am more dissapointed in the fact that this decision by NZ may have a detrimental effect on the performance of the players super14 teams, although i do agree that one thing the kiwis dont lack is depth of talent, people do pay to go and watch their favourite players (as you remember in a previous thread we disagreed on regarding player payments) and if they aren't there they may not go to the game but stay at home and watch it on fox...
    And we have all seen what happens to fallen all black coachs, they come west and coach the Force....

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    Immortal Contributor The InnFORCEr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick

    Which team do you think will stop the "rusty" AB's to making the Semis? Italy, Scotland or Romania......
    Just on this point, I think you will find that the loser of the France V Ireland pool game will meet The All Blacks in a quarter final, I think that match will be your hurdle, win that and I may have to change my signature

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    Legend Contributor Thequeerone's Avatar
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    Sssh don't tell em - the less the Kiwis know the better !

    I think it's brillant that all these players are getting unmatch fit - think of the frist few games of S14 how many silly mistakes even the most experienced player makes - never mind the fact that they all have to learn/relearn how to play with each other - let em eat dirt - preferably Irish dirt

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    Immortal Contributor The InnFORCEr's Avatar
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    I've got my $100 on the Irish at $13 to win RWC 2007.

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    Player blindsid3's Avatar
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    At the moment I am reading "Winning!" by Clive Woodward...it traces the steps in his life that lead him to him coaching the World Cup losing, then winning English team.

    Interestingly he takes precisely the opposite view that New Zealand is currently taking...that for a team to win they need to play together and play often.

    Woodward's view was that his 1st team should play always, and play to win and not stop attacking...ever. So in 2003 he rolled them out against Georgia and all of the other minnows before they played South Africa and went into the qtrs, semis etc.

    I wonder who has the right approach?

    When I was living / playing in Canbera in the '90s my employer spent a lot of time and money keeping me fit - Group Physical Training up to 5 times a week, Gym work daily and then we had Rugby Training on top of all of that...

    ...I always remember talking about a "lack of match fitness" at the beginning of a season regardless of how many pushups or situps or laps of the bottom oval some vertically challenged PTI had made me push out in the off-season...

    One of the other major apsects of game play Woodward talks about is situational awareness / sphere of awareness. Woodward called it something different, but essentially talked about developing and training each player with the skills necessary to assess the whole field of play for threats and oportunities before committing to a course of action. A Kurtley Beale, for example will have a greater sphere of awareness than 100% his 18 year old peers playing club Rugby around Australia, which is why he is playing Super 14s straight out of school.

    A player needs to train his sphere of awareness as much as he does his body. Much of that will be done on the training park and even more in a game situation.

    Yesterday a really good article apeared on news.com.au about Leyton Hewitt. Whether you love him or hate him, it provided a good insight into the mind of elite sportspeople.

    http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599...007146,00.html

    In it the author discussed how elite sportspeople often, through their training or actions, provide themselves and the public an excuse "just in case they fail".

    In 2003 Mitch got the All-Blacks to the semis only to be dumped as national coach for failing to bring home Bill.

    I am a sceptic...methinks withholding the all-blacks is as much about Graham Henry holding onto his job post France as it is about the All-Blacks winning.

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    Senior Player luke_the_pom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blindsid3
    At the moment I am reading "Winning!" by Clive Woodward...it traces the steps in his life that lead him to him coaching the World Cup losing, then winning English team.
    good book that!
    just finished reading it, now onto the Martin Johnson autobiography!

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    Immortal Contributor The InnFORCEr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luke_the_pom
    good book that!!
    just a crap ending

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    Player rick boyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frontrow
    I hope it backfires on them, it is disgraceful to take talented players out of the game they excel in to watch from the sidelines, and does nothing for the super14 competition...I can't wait to see them justify this if they lose the world cup, or if they don't even make the final....Heads would definately roll then...
    That would pre-suppose that any sort of preparation would actually increase a team's chances in a knockout tournament, where the result is more likely to be decided by luck, the bounce of the ball and whoever gets the last drop goal before extra time runs out.

    Let's face it, all rugby nations would love to have the depth to rest their key test players in a professional rugby season that is just too long and too demanding. It should definitely pay dividends to New Zealand's international campaign. But the world cup is a knockout tournament -- one off day and you're out, no seocnd chances. All the preparation in the world won't change that.

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    Player Nick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blindsid3
    In 2003 Mitch got the All-Blacks to the semis only to be dumped as national coach for failing to bring home Bill.

    I am a sceptic...methinks withholding the all-blacks is as much about Graham Henry holding onto his job post France as it is about the All-Blacks winning.
    Well the big problem with that campaign (2003)was the lack of depth we lost a couple of players in crucial positions and that pretty much ended it... Although Mitchell fone an amazing job at bring together a team that really was struggling when took over

    Im not really sure how not playing 22 players will Save? Henery from getting the axe post world cup you might have to explain that one to me blindsid3. It doesn't make sense as a motivating factor or strategy... He loses he will cop it no matter what.

    As to the bums on seats - I do think it's not the greatest thing to happen to S14 but then I look at eh Blues and think of the vibrancey that Flavell has brought to the team with Mealamu being rested...

    So far the crowd turn outs haven't been bad - I dont think the same system would work here, and Im not having a go but depth is the issue.

    The guys who play for the AB's get a huge amount of rugby over the course of the year, really it just ends up being too much.

    As for match fitness well thts my point they will play the S14 then they will paly France I imagine as good as Carter is Luke the Pom that they will give him a work out. Following this they will have the Tri Nations (I dont think you can count Canada)...

    I have great respect for how both the Irish and French team are shapping up and they will be tough and rightly so the world Cup is not meant to be easy but by that time I think you underestimate the amount of Rugby the AB's will have played.

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    Player Goldmember's Avatar
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    Talking

    The Kiwis have placed the World Cup on a pedestal while other countries are still exploring their options and making sure they pick form players.

    Nothing like some additional ppppppressure for kkkkkiwis in the ffffinals

    What do you call 22 men watching the World Cup Rugby Final?
    .......The All Blacks

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