The "Bigger Picture" for WA Rugby

[pruc]

yes front row. what i was trying to say.:$ and we should have juniors playing at the same grounds as the seniors do. instead of playing at the shit hole called britannia. worst place in WA to play rugby.

[frontrow]

That is a good point pruc, i am of the opinion that to build a good rugby community from the ground up then you should include your juniors in the event, making the whole day into a family affair with the kids playing in the morning, a bbq lunch at the club, then an arvo watching the seniors, and cheering them on, which would also add to the spectator base as how many families would just go to britannia and watch thier kids then head home, plenty i bet...This way the family is catered for, from the start to the end of the day...This idea is actually quite a good one pruc, but it may be hard to persuade the junior rugby association to part with it`s weekly cash flow, as it is canteen sales which help keep it afloat i would reckon, and it does have a long history in one location...It would be interesting to hear other peoples views on this matter though...

[pruc]

pfffft frontrow... will never happen. move games from britannia the wajru like it there because thats the only way they make money (canteen). i hate britannia we had one game at home and one at baysie. best two games of the year. big crowd even for under 14s we were actually a club. and then the first grade crowd was huge. same at baysie. i know my old man has made a few enemys in wajru for speaking his mind about the conditions at britania. all the grounds are too small for aru standards (we measured). also playing at 8am in the friggen morning! or 1230 another weeks it pisses you off. but come next year they put all u15,16,17's deliberatally at the saem time as psa so you cant continue club rugby

[uglea]

I think suggestions are positive regarding a club hosting all of its teams in one location. The downside would be if clubs that have a lot of juniors were playing at a club that didn't have lots of juniors (read Joondalup and any other club as an eg). the teams that dnt get run would need to play somewhere else (cant play against each other as this would be repetative). You then run the risk of spliting the parents and kids from families etc.

I think that a flow effect, similar to one that is trying to be encouraged by RWA of preier grade clubs and feeder clubs needs to be developed more. If every club had a team in premier grade, would there be enough players to balance things?

I also think that the bringing in of players / coaches (whether they are paid or not or on contracts etc) is a good idea. To bring in external rugby influence can only be a positive as it allows local rugby to evolve (not in isolation). The only issue is the funding of this. RWA have offered to help clubs in negotiating and working out contracts with players to ensure that clubs and players get fair deals (and that money isn't being wasted). Different clubs think differently - a great example is how clubs have used the insurance money that RWA freed up for them by paying everyone's insurance last season. Should clubs have to provide audited financials to RWA? Should there be an agreement, like there is at the Canterbury Rugby Union, where all amatuer clubs have signed to say that they wont pay players (they also have a semi professional side as well - which may be like our National comp). Look at Sydney to see what player payments have done for clubs - most survive from pokies.

now that the cat is alive and amongst the pigeons, let the comments fly and the emotions flow

[Prop Star]

pfffft frontrow... will never happen. move games from britannia the wajru like it there because thats the only way they make money (canteen). i hate britannia we had one game at home and one at baysie. best two games of the year. big crowd even for under 14s we were actually a club. and then the first grade crowd was huge. same at baysie. i know my old man has made a few enemys in wajru for speaking his mind about the conditions at britania. all the grounds are too small for aru standards (we measured). also playing at 8am in the friggen morning! or 1230 another weeks it pisses you off. but come next year they put all u15,16,17's deliberatally at the saem time as psa so you cant continue club rugby

Pruc,

You really need to understand a few things before you start to spout rubbish about Britannia.

The single central venue makes sense at this time for a number of reasons. Firstly, did you consider the impact that a home and away competition would have on referees?

From reading the 2006 WAJRU annual report there are 116 teams from Under 11 to Under 17. That equates to 58 games or so that referees need to be found for every Saturday.

A central venue means that referees can (and do) cover more games - it is also vital for referee development and recruitment.

As for the comments about the canteen - WAJRU now don't run the canteen, its outsourced to external suppliers.

The grounds at Britannia meet the minimum dimensions for the age groups played on them. Space is an issue, which is why the WAJRU have opened new venues in the north and south to alleviate some of the pressure.

If 8.00 is too early a start time for you, how early do you think you'd have to get up if Palmyra played away at Mandurah?

Don't bad mouth Britannia if you don't have all the facts - Britannia is a concept that is unique to juinior rugby in Australia, is supported by RugbyWA and the majority of Junior Rugby Stakeholders in Western Australia.

[frontrow]

As for the comments about the canteen - WAJRU now don't run the canteen, its outsourced to external suppliers.

The grounds at Britannia meet the minimum dimensions for the age groups played on them. Space is an issue, which is why the WAJRU have opened new venues in the north and south to alleviate some of the pressure.

If 8.00 is too early a start time for you, how early do you think you'd have to get up if Palmyra played away at Mandurah?

Don't bad mouth Britannia if you don't have all the facts - Britannia is a concept that is unique to juinior rugby in Australia, is supported by RugbyWA and the majority of Junior Rugby Stakeholders in Western Australia

Quote taken from Prop star


In regards to raising funds for junior rugby, how is this accomplished now that the canteen is outsourced, isn`t that a bit ridiculous, back in my day parents helped run the canteen and all monies raised went back into the junior rugby development, this was called volunteering...Now someone makes money from our juniors, what were you thinking WAJRU???
Regarding extra space in the north and south, can you explain this to me as i haven`t heard anything regarding this, but sounds like a good thing...
And regarding an 8.00am start if paly was playing at home in mandurah, for example, well the games could be run simultaneously, ie u11`s and u15`s playing, then u10`s with u16s, you get the idea, thereby allieviating the need for such an early start...
And on your final point, i agree with you...Don`t bad mouth Britannia as it is an excellent location, and offers parents and children a central location to partake in, and peruse the game of rugby in many forms, and standards, all from the one location...This also instills a sense of comraderie in our juniors as we all make mates playing rugby, and it helps if you can all play in one area, so when your game ends you can watch your mates, or vice versa.
There are some very good points about Brittania Pruc, but as you know there are also some issues which get under your skin, unfortunately we have to take the good with the bad mate...

[pruc]

The grounds at Britannia meet the minimum dimensions for the age groups played on them. Space is an issue, which is why the WAJRU have opened new venues in the north and south to alleviate some of the pressure.

they didnt last season. they were 5m too narrow.

If 8.00 is too early a start time for you, how early do you think you'd have to get up if Palmyra played away at Mandurah?

well you wouldnt be playing at 8am would you? there wouldnt be any need. less teams playing at a venue - later starts. and 8am is too early. you try playing at 8am! on a narrow field with shitty goal posts!

[Ecky]

Re Britannia: While it is now too small to hold all the games, where else would you go? I understand WAJRU are investigating maybe a North comp, Central comp & South comp, with the champions of each comp playing off in finals. BUT where do they play? That's one of the issues: alternative venues. And yes, having a whole bunch of referees in the one location obviously makes sense to cover as many games as possible.

Re the comment about U/19 and Senior grades: From this season the scrum engagement laws are now the same for every grade throughout community rugby and beyond, so no problem with that one. No crutch binding for locks in U/19 shouldn't be too big a step for those playing seniors. Scrum wheeling 45 or 90 also shouldn't be an issue (do players intentionally wheel scrums then???) and scrum being pushed past 1.5m in U/19 whereas no limit in seniors; again no issue. There are some other fairly minor things which are all basically to do with safety at junior level which are not so dissimilar to seniors that a moderately good U/19 player can cope with.

[Prop Star]

If you bothered to read my reply - I said how early do you think you'd need to get up to play an away game in Mandurah, not start.

No doubt that Palmyra could host games simultaneously at home - Mandurah have one field, so could not schedule games to run side by side, unless you use Coote Reserve and the foreshore venue, which splits up the club, defeating the purpose. More than likely games against opposition would need to start before the seniors, the first games of which start at around 12 noon. Do the maths.

What you should remember is that if you want to play all your matches away from the central venue, you'll have to be prepared to visit clubs whose facilities aren't of the same standard and size as Palmyras.

The iRB and therefore Australian standard is that the pitches be a maximum length of 100m and a maximum width of 70m. Note: MAXIMUM. The larger pitches at Britannia for U13 - U17 are 65m in width, more than adequate for junior rugby. You may be interested to know that Rugby Park's pitch isn't the maximum 70m in width either.

Pruc, you'll find that I'm at Britannia by 7.00 every Saturday morning - every Round of the season played there, rain and shine and I don't leave until 2.30 in the afternoon, so excuse me if I don't sympathise with the fact that you don't get enough beauty sleep!

As for the canteen situation, evidence from the last couple of seasons has shown that it has become nigh on impossible to get volunteers to man the canteen from the clubs, symptomatic, I'm afraid, of an apathetic trend by some towards junior rugby.

You may notice (from the website) that the Venues Coordinator positon on the WAJRU executive committee remains vacant, plenty out there willing to complain, not many willing to stand up and help run the thing!

[frontrow]

I can understand your dilemma Prop star, regarding staffing of the canteen, seems everyone is too busy to help out nowadays, and people like myself who fly in fly out can`t be relied on to help out either, which is why i ended up quitting refereeing over all grades...Sounds like you are truly committed to the cause mate, and believe me you have my full support, if only from the far away locale of Paraburdoo...Now beauty sleep is something i truly have lacked in as others can testify...
As to the idea of playing all games for one club at one venue, perhaps it isn`t viable across the board, but surely some of these clubs could manage to put on Family days for the whole club to play at home, from rugrats to firsts, just needs to be well advised in advanced and agreeable to all clubs involved on the day...Remember mate, these are only ideas and opinions, which we are all able to voice on this site, so don`t take anything to personally, ok...

[fulvio sammut]

Let's get a little less aggrieved and a little more objective in this debate . It isn't about pruc's sleeping habits or about Palmyra.
It should be all about accomodating, to the extent possible, all protagonists and arriiving at a solution which is least disruptive for the greatest number.A solution , which if it involves hardship and inconvenience, spreads that burden evenly.
What possible justification can there be to require one club which is equidistant from Thomas oval (within a couple of kilometres) to two others, to have to make the journey while the others don't. That was WAJRU's position at the beginning of last season.
Why should clubs who do not have adequate facilities be rewarded at the expense of clubs who do. By advantaging mediocracy you encourage it.
Why do people who for whatever reason chose to live far from the mainstream rugby competition expect that the competition be moved to them.
It is reasonably arguable that outlying clubs should accept that they need the competition to survive and that the competition doesn't necessarily need them.
Of course the above is a selfish inner city club perspective and is different from the perspective taken from the other viewpoint.
Of course rugby in general benefits from the greatest participation over the greatest area by the greatest number.
So lets work cooperatively to a resolution.
The above is only one aspect and there are many other considerations;suitability and availability of venues, other fixtures at those venues, volunteer availability etc.
A little bit less table thumping and a little bit more open and honest discussion might resolve much.

I do not speak for any club and my views expressed here are my own.

[The InnFORCEr]

I do not speak for any club and my views expressed here are my own.

Is that a disclaimer FS

[fulvio sammut]

Yep