West Australians Only

[.X.]

Recently on the Sea of Blue Facebook page. A member suggested that the only way that the Western Force will ever be successful is by having a squad of born and bred, come up thru the Juniors Western Australians.

Personally, this seems like a ludicrous statement. However, I have never seen WA/Perth Club Rugby. I have no idea of the standard.

So please, educate me. Am I wrong?

Is it possible? Is it 5 years away? 10? 20? Or, never?

------------------------------------------------------------

Here is the original post from the Sea of Blue Facebook page. Authored by Vodnybob Spurdole


Haters gonna hate but I want your honest opinions and I’m sure u will agree to improve players in wa and improve the forces chances in the future, time for some serious changes:
#1. A starting western Australian 15 with interstate and internationals on the bench, I would say a full 23 of wa boys but well miracles can happen, the only way we’re going to improve and win so we don’t have to ship in interstate or internationals is building up our wa boys, playing week to week they will improve and get better over time, it may take a few years but start now and we can win super rugby with an all wa squad I would say on around 4 to 5 years, we should be called the eastern force, im not criticising hodgo or prior and so so all the boys who came here and performed for us over the years, but time to move on.
#2. Time to change our play style, over the last few seasons I’ve notice we don’t run hard at the line, we just jog around with lacklustre passing that only moves territory 1 or 2 metres forward or backwards, also why do we panic when at the try line and lose the ball after all the hard work has been lost, the Fijians have a great play style, the just pick and go or more wider running passing rugby, stop kicking, if not the we should apply for a license to become the 3rd wa team in the afl
#3. Finally bring the wa boys home ffs, we lost old mate last season cause he went to France, sorry I forgot his name, get him back, get the other boys back, we need wa representation to go with our name the western force unlike we are the western Barbarians or the eastern force or international force, we need to show that a afl state can be competitive and be at the top, chopping and changing with all these guys that come and go isn’t good for the team, gotta rebuild nearly every year which doesn’t help our image and profile
Like I said haters gonna hate, if your brain hurts after what I’ve said then I can’t help u see the truth, we need to avoid getting booted again from super rugby, the force can start winning super titles, can beat teams by 50 points in a game, can keep teams scoreless, can get the 3 try bonus point instead of the losing one if we start change, thank u all and have a good day

[fulvio sammut]

The Wallabies, consisting as they do of largely Pacific Islander, Fijian and Maori players, are hardly a ringing endorsement of the ability of East Coast Unions to develop home grown juniors in significant numbers either.

Just sayin' ....

[.X.]

The Wallabies, consisting as they do of largely Pacific Islander, Fijian and Maori players, are hardly a ringing endorsement of the ability of East Coast Unions to develop home grown juniors in significant numbers either.

Just sayin' ....

Appreciate what you are saying Fulvio. Would appreciate your thoughts on the question at hand, considering you have been around Perth Club Rugby for 120+ years.

[shasta]

A large percentage of those PI players Fulvio is referencing are Australian born of immigrant parents. Just like Resjan Pasitoa and the rest of us in fact

[AndyS]

Well interesting question X, but a little clarification - is it ludicrous that the only way the Force be successful is by having a squad of local players, or that it is considered possible in any given time frame?

If the first, I'd agree it is ludicrous; rugby and most sports in general are full of teams pulled together from all over, for good or bad.

If the latter, then more complicated. Probably ludicrous as things stand, and in any short time frame. But in the longer term it would only really be a question of money and will. It could be done, but it would be a far bigger job than anyone is likely to have appetite for. Even then, there is still the Australia-wide development and playing gap between amateur and fully professional so retention might be particularly difficult. But it would be nominally doable...

But almost certainly not if relying on RA, and quite possibly with them being a hurdle to overcome otherwise.

[.X.]

Well interesting question X, but a little clarification - is it ludicrous that the only way the Force be successful is by having a squad of local players, or that it is considered possible in any given time frame?

I believe that it would be a ludicrous proposition to think that the only way the Force would be successful is for the squad to be only West Australian born/bred/trained. BUT, and this is a big But. I have never watched Perth Club Rugby.

[GIGS20]

I believe that it would be a ludicrous proposition to think that the only way the Force would be successful is for the squad to be only West Australian born/bred/trained. BUT, and this is a big But. I have never watched Perth Club Rugby.

I don't think it's a question about the quality of Perth rugby.

The Brumbies don't have an all ACT team. They don't even have an all Southern NSW Country team.
The Crusaders don't have abn all Canterbury team.

Therefore to limit our selection pool to just WA juniors will make it more difficult to field a team even if the WA comp is the highest standard comp in the country.

The rebels have been running for 12 years now, approximately the same time as the Force upon being cut and they're just starting to see players coming out of the Vic Club comp and play Super Rugby. I'm clearly not very sure of the background of those players, or even whether the claim that they are Melbourne players is defensible (maybe they're players who were born in Melbourne but did all their rugby development elsewhere)

I reckon the local club system of any expansion team requires at least 10-15 years of development before producing players of genuine Super Rugby quality. That isn't a whole team, thats SOME players.

How long have the Waratahs been going? they don't get all of their talent from Shute Shield, do they?

[Darren]

I think it is certainly something to aspire to.

If the goal were to work towards a competitive, 100% WA team, and it was embraced in good faith, I don't think it would matter whether or not that goal was actually reached to enjoy the benefits.

[shasta]

...................BUT, and this is a big But. I have never watched Perth Club Rugby.

.....here you go....and plenty more available.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmWSc8cd7bw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUj6E-4LPLU

[AndyS]

I think it is certainly something to aspire to.

If the goal were to work towards a competitive, 100% WA team, and it was embraced in good faith, I don't think it would matter whether or not that goal was actually reached to enjoy the benefits.

Have to say, it would be a lot easier if there were a supporting competition that comprised and actively encouraged local representation and identity. Much more realistic and possible than expecting that of SR.

[palitu]

Have to say, it would be a lot easier if there were a supporting competition that comprised and actively encouraged local representation and identity. Much more realistic and possible than expecting that of SR.

yeah i agree... there was some competition like that wasnt there? use it as a 70%+ local players competition, not a force team playing in a lower competition.

This is where i see the local players pushing for higher honours. SR is not the place for a WA only team.

[Garry Owen]

The level of the WA premier comp was getting pretty strong before we were cut and we were developing WA players into Super Rugby. It has taken a few years but I think the competition is getting stronger again. Like mentioned above it takes a good 10-15 years of sustainable growth to get to the required level.

Some of the WA premier grade teams, like the Palmyra side on the weekend would not get embarrassed against a Shute Shield or Hospital Cup team I don't think (as long as the Wallabies/Super Rugby players weren't there)

If you gathered up all the WA developed players that are playing around the world (Hoskins, Rona, Hardwick, McDonald etc) there would be enough for a squad but in reality that will never happen.

I think we will always need a combination of both, at least for a few years.

[Sheikh]

I saw that Sea of Blue post, and Vodnybob Spurdole was saying that even players such as Godwin and Hardwick shouldn't be counted as West Australian as they weren't born here (Zimbabwe & Namibia respectively).

Taking such a hard line, especially in a state which has a population where ~40% were born overseas, and maybe half of the Australian born population may have been born in other states, is surely tying an arm and a leg behind your back and trying to compete.

I've no problem with aiming for a side of WA raised players (which wouldn't exclude kids born abroad who were raised in the WA system, like Godwin or Hardwick), but even then, WA is only ~10% of the Australian population, and we'd be trying to fill 20% of the professional player spots. So I'd be more inclined to aim for a side of ~40-50% WA raised players in the Super Rugby side, and closer to 100% WA raised players in an NRC/GRR-level side.

Insisting on a 100% WA born and raised Super Rugby side smacks a little bit too much of racial purity to me, and that's rarely a good argument for anything!

[jargan83]

Haters gonna hate but I want your honest opinions and I’m sure u will agree to improve players in wa and improve the forces chances in the future, time for some serious changes:
#1. A starting western Australian 15 with interstate and internationals on the bench, I would say a full 23 of wa boys but well miracles can happen, the only way we’re going to improve and win so we don’t have to ship in interstate or internationals is building up our wa boys, playing week to week they will improve and get better over time, it may take a few years but start now and we can win super rugby with an all wa squad I would say on around 4 to 5 years, we should be called the eastern force, im not criticising hodgo or prior and so so all the boys who came here and performed for us over the years, but time to move on.
#2. Time to change our play style, over the last few seasons I’ve notice we don’t run hard at the line, we just jog around with lacklustre passing that only moves territory 1 or 2 metres forward or backwards, also why do we panic when at the try line and lose the ball after all the hard work has been lost, the Fijians have a great play style, the just pick and go or more wider running passing rugby, stop kicking, if not the we should apply for a license to become the 3rd wa team in the afl
#3. Finally bring the wa boys home ffs, we lost old mate last season cause he went to France, sorry I forgot his name, get him back, get the other boys back, we need wa representation to go with our name the western force unlike we are the western Barbarians or the eastern force or international force, we need to show that a afl state can be competitive and be at the top, chopping and changing with all these guys that come and go isn’t good for the team, gotta rebuild nearly every year which doesn’t help our image and profile
Like I said haters gonna hate, if your brain hurts after what I’ve said then I can’t help u see the truth, we need to avoid getting booted again from super rugby, the force can start winning super titles, can beat teams by 50 points in a game, can keep teams scoreless, can get the 3 try bonus point instead of the losing one if we start change, thank u all and have a good day

Facebook is a cesspit and this peanut proves it.

[Darren]

You're a smooth talker, Jargs