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Thread: Wallabies v Argentina - 15 September 2018

  1. #76
    Immortal Contributor The InnFORCEr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The InnFORCEr View Post
    Of course, she has told us that she suffers from alopecia, she told us the Izzy text was the toughest issue she has had to deal with, she told us that Karmichael from the Reds had been busted with drugs, she told us that James Slipper from the Reds had tested positive for cocaine, she told that the Wallabies performances were not acceptable after the Ireland Tour but that she supported Chieka and that he had a plan and she was right across that plan.

    Did I miss anything?
    I forgot about the cat analogy about Izzy finding his feet when he jumps for the high ball, how cold I forget that gem

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison View Post
    When Raelene came on her listening tour in January, I made it clear to her that if she was serious about mending fences with the WA rugby community, she needed to do and be seen to be doing something real and tangible to win us back. Personally, I feel like I am still waiting to be wooed back. And I suspect I’m not alone in that.

    Actions always speak louder than words.
    Because I am the bad guy. I guess I will ask the question.

    What will it take to Woo Alison back?

    btw - there is a fair chance I will have follow up questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The InnFORCEr View Post
    I forgot about the cat analogy about Izzy finding his feet when he jumps for the high ball, how cold I forget that gem
    "The analogy I use is of a cat … if you throw a cat in the air, .." WTF??? Our CEO practices throwing cats in the air? Call the RSPCA now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exile View Post
    Because I am the bad guy. I guess I will ask the question.

    What will it take to Woo Alison back?

    btw - there is a fair chance I will have follow up questions.
    I am not an Alison, obviously, but I have a starter question here for you:


    Why does NSW and Qld have 3 teams each in the Uni 7s? Then ACT, Victoria ... hell, even South Australia and Tasmania are in the comp. "Western Australia? We didn't think they'd be interested." What's doin' there Exile?


    btw - there is a fair chance I will have follow up questions.

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    Champion chibi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiap View Post
    Why does NSW and Qld have 3 teams each in the Uni 7s? Then ACT, Victoria ... hell, even South Australia and Tasmania are in the comp. "Western Australia? We didn't think they'd be interested." What's doin' there Exile?
    I think I put that question up on G&GR and the answer was something like, "Did WA want a team?"

    I put up a number of questions and the answer was generally, "it's not up to the ARU" or "ask the organisers" etc.

    The points I was trying to make, were:

    -It looks bad to WA fans, further making it look like the ARU are out to "get" us.

    -Why aren't the ARU being more proactive?

    Now that WSR and Nick Marvin have come along, I can see now, that they (RA) have been stuck in an idea-less malaise for a hell of a long time now. No-one is proactive, willing to take a punt, willing to go out and source funding, willing to be creative. Every act has been trying to allocate with what they have, doing the same things over again, and exonerating themselves of responsibility while they do it. AusKick is free; so ARU, where's the rugby version? No money? Go out and get some. If Fordham can get a Shute Shield sponsor, surely someone will put their name to RugKick?

    Remember, this is the national union that didn't promote the Barbarians' match in Sydney against the Wallabies. Why? "Well it's a Barbarians home game, it's their job to do that" I just can't fathom that.

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    Legend Contributor Exile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiap View Post
    I am not an Alison, obviously, but I have a starter question here for you:


    Why does NSW and Qld have 3 teams each in the Uni 7s? Then ACT, Victoria ... hell, even South Australia and Tasmania are in the comp. "Western Australia? We didn't think they'd be interested." What's doin' there Exile?


    btw - there is a fair chance I will have follow up questions.
    This is a really good question. Thanks Kiap.

    Here is what I know.

    For those of you playing at home and paying attention I am a part of the Committee of a Rugby Union Club called the Hawkesbury Agricultural College Rugby Union Football Club. We have been playing Rugby in Western Sydney since 1891. I have been a part of the Club for 8 years. The Hawkesbury Agriculural College is now a part of the Western Sydney University. WE (The Club) is fortunate to receive sponsorship from the University.

    Back to your question; For a number of years the HAC Rugby Club ran a tournament for University Rugby Clubs that we called the Laffam Cup. The Tournament was held in early March prior to the commencement of the Rugby Season and was open to All Australian University Teams Australia wide. The purpose was to promote University Rugby and to select a Australian Universities Team to play Australian Combined Services (Australian Army, Navy and Air Force) and the New Zealand Universities Team.

    The tournament was run from 2010 - 2016 and was based at the Western Sydney University Hawkesbury Campus (aka HAC Rugby home ground).

    At its peak we had 11 Universities participate.

    • The UNIVERSITY OF WESTERN SYDNEY (HAC Rugby)
    • UNIVERSITY OF NSW
    • MACQUARIE UNIVERSITY
    • UNIVERSITY OF ADELAIDE
    • UNIVERSITY OF SYDNEY
    • UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME
    • UNIVERSITY OF QUEENSLAND
    • CHARLES STURT UNIVERSITY BATHURST
    • UNIVERSITY / NORTHS RUFC (ACT)
    • UNIVERSITY OF WOLLONGONG
    • UNIVERSITY OF NEWCASTLE

    The tournament unfortantely died a slow death. (Most teams got sick of being beaten up by Sydney Uni.)

    HAC Rugby did all of the organising and arrangements. Using our own funds. We got zero support from any of the other Universities. Western Sydney University did allow us to use the grounds and facilities for free. We received no support from any of the State Unions nor did we receive any support from the ARU (RA).

    As you will see from the list there are no WA based Universities represented at the Laffan Cup. Yes WA based schools were invited but none ever attended. I would imagine that the cost associated with the travel and accomodation to Western Sydney would have been prohibitive.

    And here is the answer to your question - sorry for the long winded answer.

    A tournament based on the East Coast for a team of University Students is a tough trip to find funds to pay for. This is a guess. Even if a WA Team or teams was invited to attend - would a team be able to attend?

    Why wasnt a WA Team invited - I would suggest that that question needs to be asked of those people organising the tournament.

    It would be very easy to say that Cameron Clyne and the Rugby Australia Board chose not to include the WA team. But It would be a very safe bet that the Rugby Australia board has no idea that there is a Universities 7s Tournament even exists.

    I can only go by past experience.

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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibi View Post
    I think I put that question up on G&GR and the answer was something like, "Did WA want a team?"

    I put up a number of questions and the answer was generally, "it's not up to the ARU" or "ask the organisers" etc.

    The points I was trying to make, were:

    -It looks bad to WA fans, further making it look like the ARU are out to "get" us.

    -Why aren't the ARU being more proactive?

    Now that WSR and Nick Marvin have come along, I can see now, that they (RA) have been stuck in an idea-less malaise for a hell of a long time now. No-one is proactive, willing to take a punt, willing to go out and source funding, willing to be creative. Every act has been trying to allocate with what they have, doing the same things over again, and exonerating themselves of responsibility while they do it. AusKick is free; so ARU, where's the rugby version? No money? Go out and get some. If Fordham can get a Shute Shield sponsor, surely someone will put their name to RugKick?

    Remember, this is the national union that didn't promote the Barbarians' match in Sydney against the Wallabies. Why? "Well it's a Barbarians home game, it's their job to do that" I just can't fathom that.
    Well the RA have had various programs like Ed Rugby and Try Rugby rolled out through schools and run by state union development officers. The state unions being under funded don't have much to spend on development officers which probably explains why Twiggy is getting Force players to get on the ground to coach RugbyRoos rather than hire 30 additional people.

    The RA have done sweet fa to generate revenue and commercial deals at Super Rugby level which has affected their ability to retain players in Australia which has a knock on effect on their cash cow the Wallabies who have a dwindling fan base, declining performances and reduced depth to select from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exile View Post
    The tournament unfortantely died a slow death. (Most teams got sick of being beaten up by Sydney Uni.)

    HAC Rugby did all of the organising and arrangements. Using our own funds. We got zero support from any of the other Universities. Western Sydney University did allow us to use the grounds and facilities for free. We received no support from any of the State Unions nor did we receive any support from the ARU (RA).
    I will give you an upvote for compiling this answer, not that I agree with it all, and the upvote for HAC.

    No support from ARU/RA is not unfamiliar.

    However ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Exile View Post
    As you will see from the list there are no WA based Universities represented at the Laffan Cup. Yes WA based schools were invited but none ever attended. I would imagine that the cost associated with the travel and accomodation to Western Sydney would have been prohibitive.

    And here is the answer to your question - sorry for the long winded answer.

    A tournament based on the East Coast for a team of University Students is a tough trip to find funds to pay for. This is a guess. Even if a WA Team or teams was invited to attend - would a team be able to attend?
    From list of the schools you mentioned, many of those names seem to have moved straight on to an involvement in the Uni 7s from 2017.

    Something that must be underlined though is that, despite the name, the Uni 7s comp is no longer a student comp as such, like the Laffan Cup. The new comp has elite and national women's players distributed to the teams (paid pro players), which might now be sponsored by the respective universities, but it also has more governing body involvement.

    If one were to be charitable to the ARU/RA (and I'm usually not) it might be said that they took the Laffan concept and boosted it to the next level.

    The Aon Uni 7s comp itself is sponsored and, I believe, even has some amount of nationwide TV coverage via NITV.

    Quote Originally Posted by Exile View Post
    Why wasnt a WA Team invited - I would suggest that that question needs to be asked of those people organising the tournament.

    It would be very easy to say that Cameron Clyne and the Rugby Australia Board chose not to include the WA team. But It would be a very safe bet that the Rugby Australia board has no idea that there is a Universities 7s Tournament even exists.

    I can only go by past experience.
    I am sure that the RA board, yes even old mate "Banker" Clyne and the real power-broker in there, Brett Robinson, are fully across the Uni 7s.

    As short-term as the decision was, RA know that they've pocketed the TV distribution from axing the Force and put bugger all back into WA.

    Certainly no women's sevens team.

    The game in WA has had to find it's own way to survive.

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  9. #84
    Legend Contributor Exile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiap View Post
    I will give you an upvote for compiling this answer, not that I agree with it all, and the upvote for HAC.

    No support from ARU/RA is not unfamiliar.

    However ...



    From list of the schools you mentioned, many of those names seem to have moved straight on to an involvement in the Uni 7s from 2017.

    Something that must be underlined though is that, despite the name, the Uni 7s comp is no longer a student comp as such, like the Laffan Cup. The new comp has elite and national women's players distributed to the teams (paid pro players), which might now be sponsored by the respective universities, but it also has more governing body involvement.

    If one were to be charitable to the ARU/RA (and I'm usually not) it might be said that they took the Laffan concept and boosted it to the next level.

    The Aon Uni 7s comp itself is sponsored and, I believe, even has some amount of nationwide TV coverage via NITV.



    I am sure that the RA board, yes even old mate "Banker" Clyne and the real power-broker in there, Brett Robinson, are fully across the Uni 7s.

    As short-term as the decision was, RA know that they've pocketed the TV distribution from axing the Force and put bugger all back into WA.

    Certainly no women's sevens team.

    The game in WA has had to find it's own way to survive.
    Last year or perhaps the year before there was a story going around that a longterm sponsor of RugbyAustralia - Buildcorp - told RA that a requirement of their continued support that RA needed to establish a Female National Tournament. RA failed to meet that requirement and BuildCorp withdrew from its naming rights sponsorship of the NRC. In an attempt to get BuildCorp back on board. RA created Womens 7s tournament and chose the Universitys as a "vessel" (probably not the best word- sorry cant think of a better word) to quickly establish a network of teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiap View Post
    I will give you an upvote for compiling this answer, not that I agree with it all, and the upvote for HAC.

    No support from ARU/RA is not unfamiliar.

    However ...



    From list of the schools you mentioned, many of those names seem to have moved straight on to an involvement in the Uni 7s from 2017.

    Something that must be underlined though is that, despite the name, the Uni 7s comp is no longer a student comp as such, like the Laffan Cup. The new comp has elite and national women's players distributed to the teams (paid pro players), which might now be sponsored by the respective universities, but it also has more governing body involvement.

    If one were to be charitable to the ARU/RA (and I'm usually not) it might be said that they took the Laffan concept and boosted it to the next level.

    The Aon Uni 7s comp itself is sponsored and, I believe, even has some amount of nationwide TV coverage via NITV.



    I am sure that the RA board, yes even old mate "Banker" Clyne and the real power-broker in there, Brett Robinson, are fully across the Uni 7s.

    As short-term as the decision was, RA know that they've pocketed the TV distribution from axing the Force and put bugger all back into WA.

    Certainly no women's sevens team.

    The game in WA has had to find it's own way to survive.
    WA Rugby is far better off without the noose of the RA. It can control its own destiny for once without fear of being screwed.

    Sydney Uni sorry BuildCorp came back on board when Super W was brought as they wanted a national women's comp.

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  11. #86
    Legend Contributor Exile's Avatar
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    Just a quick thing to add about the Laffan Cup. My apologies this should have been in the original post.

    The Laffan Cup was a Mens Rugby Tournament. and it was 15s Rugby, not 7s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exile View Post
    Because I am the bad guy. ....
    Are you? What role did you play in the removal of the Western Force from Super Rugby and how do you continue to ignore the existence of Western Australia and grassroots rugby Australia*-wide?

    * By Australia, I mean all of actual Australia (as known to humans and maps almost everywhere)

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    Legend Contributor Exile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueandblack View Post
    Are you? What role did you play in the removal of the Western Force from Super Rugby and how do you continue to ignore the existence of Western Australia and grassroots rugby Australia*-wide?

    * By Australia, I mean all of actual Australia (as known to humans and maps almost everywhere)
    Because I live in Sydney. I am - apparently and allegedly a Rugby Australia fanboy and sympathizer. I also tend to call bullshit when I see it. So not on many Christmas Card lists.

    I am familiar with Australia - I have traveled to most parts of it. Including the West.

    I am also in possession of a Western Australian Birth Certificate. Available upon request.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exile View Post
    Because I live in Sydney. I am - apparently and allegedly a Rugby Australia fanboy and sympathizer. I also tend to call bullshit when I see it. So not on many Christmas Card lists.

    I am familiar with Australia - I have traveled to most parts of it. Including the West.

    I am also in possession of a Western Australian Birth Certificate. Available upon request.
    Who is saying that? I have also lived in Sydney, not anymore, but I have lived in Western Sydney. It doesnt change my views on what a scumbag Cameron Clyne is, or his buddies Robinson /Eales /Pulver /Sherry /Castle /North /Xenos /Owain Stone /Lyndsey Catermole and Rob Dalziel etc..
    I see what they did and how they sabotaged the Force undeservedly. I knew all about the desperation to get Melbourne a pro rugby side, even if it meant the ARU going broke. Fast forward to this now defunct pointless governing body Rugby Australia which does nothing but dismantle the game that had been built for many years and had solid foundations in both community and grassroot rugby. They not only cut WA off from pro rugby, but worse they have totally abondoned them. It just shows the cruel selfish nature of the people running the sport. They know nothing about passion and what supporters actually mean. And I mean true supporters , not like Sydney's fair weather fans, I mean the hardcore sea of blue which not only has a huge facebook presence, but has its very own fan site active for the better part of 13 or so years. That is quite remarkable and yet the RA chose to cut off these supporters from having a pro rugby side to support, even though geographically it made sense to have a full Australian presence from the West Coast to the East Coast. Instead they selfishly tore apart the game in WA, sent RugbyWA broke, and cruelly ignored them when what WA had achieved should have been applauded, not dismantled and thrown in the scrap heap. Even the South Africans found new competitions for their teams, but Australia ruthlessly did the opposite, and Clyne was well and truely top of the list to take the blame for it. His puppets have also been exposed to be totally out of their depth at running the sport, the whole board isnt capable of moving the game forward, and because of this the fans have left and the game is imploding yet nothing positive is happening to correct any of this. Instead they have stalled World Series Rugby.

    It is still quite unbeleivable that Rugby Australia under Clyne with Eales/Robinson and Sherry on the board did not accept the $50million offer he was willing to pour into the game, and now the game is in catastrophic decline.

    It's hard to call bullshit on most of that, such were the Shennanigans these clowns were up to it launched a senate inquiry, and it was suspose to have an ASIC investigation, however that collapsed due to the banking royal commission.

    It's hard to find any sort of positive spin on anything right now, and most of the Rugby articles these days are pretty shit to read which is just killing the fans interest as the journalists just wont focus on the real issues and keep glossing over everything. Bring back some of the old Spiro and Growden articles from the mid to late 00's thank you, those guys certainly focussed on rugbys real issues back then, and despite the constant negativity it was actually quite interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Exile View Post
    Because I live in Sydney. I am - apparently and allegedly a Rugby Australia fanboy and sympathizer. I also tend to call bullshit when I see it. So not on many Christmas Card lists.

    I am familiar with Australia - I have traveled to most parts of it. Including the West.

    I am also in possession of a Western Australian Birth Certificate. Available upon request.
    Ex,

    You are a pilgrim in an unholy land!

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