Poll: The state of Australian Rugby:

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Thread: Australia just isn't that good!

  1. #1
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    Australia just isn't that good!

    The majority of debate and expectation about Australian Rugby is under the premise that we are perhaps not living up to expectation and are under performing as we have the ability and "cattle" to be number one.
    Now, purely as the devils advocate, what if we suddenly realised that the facts are we simply don't have the senior players to make us consistently claim number one and in fact, our two World Cups and any period as IRB #1 was a case of a gutsy group of individuals playing way above their weight division for unsustainable success?
    In the spirit of pure sport, should we be always driven to be the worlds best in every field of endeavour?
    Let's face it, currently we aren't playing too flash, but we are ranked the third best nation in this sport out of the 100 odd nations that play it!
    Does Australian Rugby need to improve or do Australian Rugby supporters need a reality check?

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    I think genuine Australian rugby supporters know we're 3rd. It's the wagon jumpers who think we should be at number 1 all the time.

    I'm glad we've made changes, I'm not convinced we've got the time we need to get to number 1 by RWC time. I'm also a realist to accept when we do get to number one it will not be for as long as N.Z. stay to there.

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    Veteran Contributor frontrow's Avatar
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    Sure, Australian rugby needs to improve, and by introducing the Force, and APC they are trying to promote a policy of "more play, better play" by offering higher levels of competition which has been lacking previously. The fact that we are ranked third in the world still is due to the fact that we really do play hard at the game, and if it wasn`t for the kiwis we would probably be number one a lot more frequently. But, they are the yardstick on which all rugby nations base their success on, and so it should be, with their wealth of talent and depth. This said, for a nation so small to be number one, well, a nation like ours should still be able to produce the goods....
    I don`t think the fans are delusional, they just like to see improvement and good competitive games, and not see a side struggling to make progress.
    Prior to the eighties i didn`t really hear much on the rugby front, with league being the dominant code out of the two..... But through hard work, (and better TV coverage too), the Wallabies were thrust into the national spotlight, and they took this opportunity and shone. Since then we have been very competitive and near the top of the rankings, so that when we stumble it seems to come as a shock, wheras it is more to do with redevelopment of the team structure, and the blooding of new talent, and these players adapting to the more intense theatre of international rugby, and Australian rugbys( spectators and the heirarchy), intense desire for "top shelf" rugby every match...

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    Quote Originally Posted by frontrow
    Sure, Australian rugby needs to improve, and by introducing the Force, and APC they are trying to promote a policy of "more play, better play" by offering higher levels of competition which has been lacking previously. The fact that we are ranked third in the world still is due to the fact that we really do play hard at the game, and if it wasn`t for the kiwis we would probably be number one a lot more frequently. But, they are the yardstick on which all rugby nations base their success on, and so it should be, with their wealth of talent and depth. This said, for a nation so small to be number one, well, a nation like ours should still be able to produce the goods....
    I don`t think the fans are delusional, they just like to see improvement and good competitive games, and not see a side struggling to make progress.
    Prior to the eighties i didn`t really hear much on the rugby front, with league being the dominant code out of the two..... But through hard work, (and better TV coverage too), the Wallabies were thrust into the national spotlight, and they took this opportunity and shone. Since then we have been very competitive and near the top of the rankings, so that when we stumble it seems to come as a shock, wheras it is more to do with redevelopment of the team structure, and the blooding of new talent, and these players adapting to the more intense theatre of international rugby, and Australian rugbys( spectators and the heirarchy), intense desire for "top shelf" rugby every match...
    I dont think i could put it any better then this

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    (formerly known as Coach) Your Humble Servant Darren's Avatar
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    I expect the Wallabies to win every game and am bitterley disappointed everytime they lose. With the Wallabies, a win is always possible - that's what makes them so good and that is why they are able to hold a position in the top 3 with reasonable consistency.

    Also, the Australian 'sports person' base (sports minded people who *could* choose to play rugby) supports 3 other major football codes - we do bloody well considering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frontrow
    This said, for a nation so small to be number one, well, a nation like ours should still be able to produce the goods....
    similarly also for Australia's Olyimpic games success, and especially in the swimming against the US!

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    I try and argue that reason also Coach, however come up against a hitch...

    Lets say the amount of money in the talent pot for Rugby, AFL and League is even. Soccer is obviously much greater with the English Premiership so I'll give them 2 places.

    That would very very roughly give Union access to 1 out of 5 of our top class athletes.

    Australia population: 20.5 mil
    Kiwi population: 4.5 mil

    We have 5 times their population, 5 times their 'sports person' base, so what do the kiwi's have?

    1. They have an unbreakable belief in rugby as a religion. Their entire society is based around the all blacks. They have a rugby channel, rugby pubs, rugby rugby rugby. Their number 1 celebrity is not a singer, dancer or actor... it's Daniel Carter!
    2. They have Maori's who are genetically designed rugby machines. Big, Strong, Fast... and they don't just have a few Maori's, they have a shiteload of them.
    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy
    similarly also for Australia's Olyimpic games success, and especially in the swimming against the US!
    perhaps.. though I'd be interested to see how we compare to the US in terms of cash invested in swimming..

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    Just about all the comments so far are valid. NZ of course are the benchmark. The things that have got them there are that the game there has "religion" status, their club/competition structure is a lot older and more developed, and the "tyranny of distance" has been less of a hindrance to this development over the years than has been the case in Oz. Sorry coach but the "spread of talent" over 4 different footy codes doesn't wash, as the numbers involved in Rugby are about equal AFAIK. Take into account both codes and we probably have 4 times as many players to choose from. So our Kiwi buddies definately punch way above their weight.
    Basically, we have some catching up to do. One of the biggest things we need to overcome is that some of our "old farts with leather patches" see change as a threat. The ones in NZ can put sectional interests aside for the sake of staying on top the heap (especially us). Ours so far seem unable.

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    (formerly known as Coach) Your Humble Servant Darren's Avatar
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    The numbers involved in Rugby may well be equal, but the resources allocated to rugby as compared with the other codes is not. I think not including WA, SA, Vic, Tas and NT in the calculations would yeild something much closer to a fair comparison...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moses
    2. They have Maori's who are genetically designed rugby machines. Big, Strong, Fast... and they don't just have a few Maori's, they have a shiteload of them.
    ...
    I thought that too Sage but didn't want to use it. But it seems to me that most of the really big units are of Tongan & Samoan heritage and most of the really, really fast ones are Fijian heritage. Whatever they have more than we do

    I'd like to see that worked out on a "per-head-of-population" basis

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    or TAS (50, 60 people? )

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    Quote Originally Posted by shastra
    I thought that too Sage but didn't want to use it. But it seems to me that most of the really big units are of Tongan & Samoan heritage and most of the really, really fast ones are Fijian heritage. Whatever they have more than we do

    I'd like to see that worked out on a "per-head-of-population" basis
    Sage?

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy
    or TAS (50, 60 people? )
    Take out Boony, Foster and Punter and you're left with 47!

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  14. #14
    (formerly known as Coach) Your Humble Servant Darren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moses
    Sage?
    Come now, Moses - you know all 'tahs supporters look alike ....

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    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach
    The numbers involved in Rugby may well be equal, but the resources allocated to rugby as compared with the other codes is not.
    Exactly. Like I said we got some catching up to do and some old farts to be sorted out.

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