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Thread: 2018 Super Rugby Crowd Figures

  1. #196
    Champion andrewg's Avatar
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    There is no way that the Western Force can make a "profit" in 2018 as Minderoo is paying full costs for all of the exhibition games.

    Things MAY change with the full 8-team World Series Rugby competition in 2019 with 7 x home-and-away + Finals competition.

    However, it will take a couple of seasons to test the model and be talking about "profit".
    Perhaps Minderoo will end up running the WSR competition so that the Western Force can be privately/consortium owned and be run as a separate profit-making business - which all of the WSR clubs need to be ASAP.

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  2. #197
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    ARU/RA revenues in 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakkies View Post
    Should be another loss why:
    My North Shore mates tell me that the ARU/RA cash flow projections for 2018 are "interesting", the June tour by Ireland notwithstanding - perhaps get ready for a wee bit of creative accounting by the ARU/RA beanies?

    In RWC years, usually there is no in-bound mid-year international tour, and the number of tests played in the 4-nation RC is halved. In 2019, the Wallabies will play only one test in Australia, the Bledisloe in Perth (I think), whereas in non-RWC years, the Wallabies normally play at least 6 tests in Australia (3 mid-year tour and 3 RC) .
    There was a revised distribution of revenues from the RWC announced prior to the 2015 RWC.
    What's the deal in 2019 - will World Rugby redistribute some of the revenues from the 2019 RWC to the other national unions like the ARU/RA, to compensate for their reduced domestic test seasons?

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    Last edited by FingerTips; 31-07-18 at 09:59.

  3. #198
    Veteran Bakkies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewg View Post
    There is no way that the Western Force can make a "profit" in 2018 as Minderoo is paying full costs for all of the exhibition games.

    Things MAY change with the full 8-team World Series Rugby competition in 2019 with 7 x home-and-away + Finals competition.

    However, it will take a couple of seasons to test the model and be talking about "profit".
    Perhaps Minderoo will end up running the WSR competition so that the Western Force can be privately/consortium owned and be run as a separate profit-making business - which all of the WSR clubs need to be ASAP.
    I am aware of the full costs being paid however the Force have:

    - A long list of actual sponsors not a start up protected by lies in confidence
    - Small coaching staff
    - Not as many hangers on (and a lot of them are paid six figures at other clubs/unions)
    - Paid up members I would suspect that the Force would have more members than some Super Rugby teams
    - Playing list not on huge salaries
    - Crowds
    - The debt owing on NIB stadium has been parked for a year by the WA Government

    Not sure if there is WA Government support to help get the organisation back on its feet.

    In comparison a Super Rugby team has these overheads:

    - 39 squad members, at least four coaches before we count analysts, physios, doctors, etc. The RA annual funding covers the salary cap for the players but the rest is paid by the team themselves. The Tahs had to double job their coaches this year to cut costs
    - According to Alan Jones it costs at least 500k to send a team to SA for two weeks
    - Expensive internal travel costs
    - Travel costs to NZ
    - Stadium rental. I suspect the Force have a far better deal in comparison to say the Reds
    - Having to fully contract players that are covering for injuries. The Brumbies had to bring in at least three from outside the squad to cover injuries particularly in the backrow

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  4. #199
    Immortal Contributor The InnFORCEr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakkies View Post
    I am aware of the full costs being paid however the Force have:

    - A long list of actual sponsors not a start up protected by lies in confidence
    - Small coaching staff
    - Not as many hangers on (and a lot of them are paid six figures at other clubs/unions)
    - Paid up members I would suspect that the Force would have more members than some Super Rugby teams
    - Playing list not on huge salaries
    - Crowds
    - The debt owing on NIB stadium has been parked for a year by the WA Government

    Not sure if there is WA Government support to help get the organisation back on its feet.

    In comparison a Super Rugby team has these overheads:

    - 39 squad members, at least four coaches before we count analysts, physios, doctors, etc. The RA annual funding covers the salary cap for the players but the rest is paid by the team themselves. The Tahs had to double job their coaches this year to cut costs
    - According to Alan Jones it costs at least 500k to send a team to SA for two weeks
    - Expensive internal travel costs
    - Travel costs to NZ
    - Stadium rental. I suspect the Force have a far better deal in comparison to say the Reds
    - Having to fully contract players that are covering for injuries. The Brumbies had to bring in at least three from outside the squad to cover injuries particularly in the backrow
    I think you will find that SANZAAR/Super Rugby cover the travel costs for the playing squad and a certain number of coaches/officials. The teams only pay for any extra, over and above what is already covered. I don't think the travel puts as much of a dent in their pockets as what a lack of membership and match day crowd numbers do.

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  5. #200
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    Tahs annual report for 2017-18. Finances from page 55.

    http://www.nswwaratahs.com.au/Portal...l%20Report.pdf

    Over 1 million to the NSWRU for use of Waratahs' IP FMD

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  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakkies View Post
    Should be another loss why:

    - The Reds have had their annual funding forwarded as I expected last year to cover cash flow issues, payouts and problems with their sponsors. They still have to finish paying Knuckles off
    - The Rabble are still getting incremental payments from the Clown College above their annual funding
    - They have to increase Community Rugby funding
    - One less Bledisloe test in Australia this year
    - The RA will struggle to sell out the Argentina and Springbok home games
    - They did not save money from cutting the Force
    - Raelene's salary will be on the report
    - They are still paying out overseas clubs to bring back on injury prone on contract players. Toomua is the latest case

    In regards to the states the Brumbies are tipped to make a profit again this year. I suspect the Force will as they don't have to fork out huge overheads to travel overseas and they don't have a bloated front office.
    They are still paying Quade, Slips and KHunt to play club rugby (or sit in rehab as the case may be)
    God knows how they're funneling money into Praetorian Private Equity now, but I guarantee there'll be some dodgy tricks to enable it.
    Rebels now have a squad that's bigger than the population of Melbourne, I bet they aren't being paid out of VRU funds.
    Rod Kafer probably isn't cheap (but he should be)
    They will also need to find money to beef up the Tahs pack, because the story from the semi final is that the pack was monstered by bigger blokes.....remember that pack DIDN'T include the lightest and least effective Number 7 in World Rugby.

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    C'mon the

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    They are still paying Quade, Slips and KHunt to play club rugby (or sit in rehab as the case may be)
    God knows how they're funneling money into Praetorian Private Equity now, but I guarantee there'll be some dodgy tricks to enable it.
    Rebels now have a squad that's bigger than the population of Melbourne, I bet they aren't being paid out of VRU funds.
    Rod Kafer probably isn't cheap (but he should be)
    They will also need to find money to beef up the Tahs pack, because the story from the semi final is that the pack was monstered by bigger blokes.....remember that pack DIDN'T include the lightest and least effective Number 7 in World Rugby.
    Kwagga Smith is lighter than Hooper and he ran through them.

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  8. #203
    Veteran chibi's Avatar
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    Almost a full house for a Super Rugby game in New Zealand today!


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    Last edited by chibi; 04-08-18 at 18:58.


    Japan and the Pacific Islands for Aussie Super 9's!

    Let's have one of these in WA! Click this link: Saitama Super Arena - New Perth Stadium?

  9. #204
    Champion SPaRTAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chibi View Post
    Almost a full house for a Super Rugby game in New Zealand today!

    In what, A 20k stadium?

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  10. #205
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    Hence the GIF

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    Japan and the Pacific Islands for Aussie Super 9's!

    Let's have one of these in WA! Click this link: Saitama Super Arena - New Perth Stadium?

  11. #206
    Immortal Contributor The InnFORCEr's Avatar
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    14,417 = Force average crowd after six matches

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  12. #207
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    There is a new article up on the Roar by Geoff Parkes about WSR and he has actually done so research this time rather than throw out theories. There was a comment from a Kiwi poster who said that the Taranaki Rugby Union are looking at putting a proposal to Twiggy. They make more sense than North Harbour as they will pull a better crowd, have better brand recognition abroad and haven't quiet fit in to Super Rugby due to not getting enough fixtures. They seem to have financial muscle behind them based on their NPC squads.

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  13. #208
    Champion MI5_Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakkies View Post
    There is a new article up on the Roar by Geoff Parkes about WSR and he has actually done so research this time rather than throw out theories. There was a comment from a Kiwi poster who said that the Taranaki Rugby Union are looking at putting a proposal to Twiggy. They make more sense than North Harbour as they will pull a better crowd, have better brand recognition abroad and haven't quiet fit in to Super Rugby due to not getting enough fixtures. They seem to have financial muscle behind them based on their NPC squads.
    A very good and well balanced article.

    first time in ages I've actually enjoyed readying something from that site.

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  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI5_Dog View Post
    ....first time in ages I've actually enjoyed readying something from that shite.
    Fixed it for you Dog...no charge

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  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI5_Dog View Post
    A very good and well balanced article.
    I liked the article, but I thought this was quite funny.
    "Matches will be of varying quality and, with no overall mechanism to ensure equalisation, there is high potential for disparity between the top and bottom sides – as there would be in any fledgling competition."

    Taking a look at the scores from 2017. Maybe it's not just fledgling competitions that are affected.
    Hurricanes 83 vs Sunwolves 17
    Hurricanes 71 vs Rebels 6
    Stormers 53 vs Cheetahs 10
    Crusaders 50 vs Sunwolves 3
    Kings 44 vs Rebels 3
    Hurricanes 61 vs Cheetahs 7
    Highlanders 55 vs Force 6
    Lions 54 vs Kings 10
    Lions 94 vs Sunwolves 7

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