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Thread: Trial Matches This Weekend?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansie View Post
    WJM - your chance tomorrow evening at 6:00am - there is an AGM there, board positions are being contested - lobby your club to vote in the new people.

    Actually I am interested how you know that Andrew has chosen not to join our board? Why should he? Minderoo and RugbyWA are two totally separate entities. Minderoo own and operate the Western Force, they have professional players and are selling tickets to their matches. RugbyWA manages the Community comp. Not sure Andrew would want to be involved in Community to be quite honest. However, rest assured, both Minderoo and RugbyWA have an excellent working arrangement.

    Colts is a real issue and if you can help us with suggestions, ideas or any initiative that can grow this age group, I can assure you, you will have our absolute undivided attention.

    I agree there was a disconnect between Community and Force in the early years - Force players heading back to play Shute shield, Force players encouraged NOT to play community Rugby and so on... I do think though that in 2016 and 2017, things began to change. Dave Wessels engaged more with community, the Future Force Programme engaged with clubs, more local home grown players in the Force squad, so I think we should agree we were getting things right.

    Happy for you to advise us where we lost our way... So many people use these generalities just to throw barbs and brickbats. I don't think there is one board member who has forgotten where they came from. I head to Neddies on many occasions, Cookie heads to Kalla, Folkard to Wests, Charlie and Johnny flit between Cott and Soaks, Deano goes to Soaks, Alison is putting an awesome proposal to all clubs to get non-aligned fans to help clubs where it's needed most.

    So, please accept my invitation to come along tomorrow night, explain to community where the RUGBYWA board has lost it's way and get the new people in to help RugbyWA find it's way. Please be specific, if we have indeed had our head in the sand, you must - if you care about community - expose these mistakes and clean us out.

    Finally on your first point - wait patiently as we look forward to ASIC's determinations.
    Hansie you are right about the colts from what I am told there will only be four or five teams which is a disgrace . Also been told that the costal cavaliers who won the colts at Nedlands 10s have been told that the grade sides 1st 2nds 3rds are more important then colts . So they have put all there colts into grade mainly thirds ???

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  2. #17
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    Ken M - all good points from a singular point of view.

    From my feedback from the Junior exec., junior numbers are holding up quite well and I think have grown the last couple of years.
    Colts is and will continue to be a huge issue. Please Please as I have said numerous times before, I assume you care about our rugby in WA, I'd love to hear your solution.

    A number of years ago there was a transition in school leaving age from 17 to 18. This added a bit of complexity in that clubs advised us that an Under 19 comp would mean a Colt exits school and realistically only be able to play 1 year as a Colt. Some clubs saw that as too short a time to integrate. Furthermore talented under 18 players who played whilst in year 12 ( either in PSA or Club) would be snapped up into Premiergrade and Reserve grade. Clubs told us that less talented friends coming out of under 19 into seniors a year later fell away, because teams in 3rd and 4th grade had few 19 and 20 years olds and many of the older opponents and team mates saw fresh meat as a chance to make them into men. So, we went to under 20 ( amongst many other reasons) .

    We still have talented players leapfrogging colts and heading straight into Prems or Reserve. We have the less talented Colts now advising us they are time poor and two lots of training, plus a Saturday eats into their casual work and play time schedules.

    So, yup you are right it is a comic book situation, happy to take all the blame if that makes you happy, but I think most people would agree we have tried new things ( like the u23's comp.) which failed, but unless you try something and fail, you don't learn.

    Interesting you see the board - made up of volunteers - should implement a plan to try and grow the game.... What should clubs do? Are you saying the board must be involved with every club and direct clubs how to retain good people on and off the field?

    With respect to the Force and Community, I think I have answered that previously.

    Not sure I understand your point about so-called major clubs relying on the FORCE. It has been since 2016 that each club was only allowed 4 Force players - I cannot see how 4 players can fill books - please explain? What false economy are you talking about?

    From 2015 to 2017, I think you will see the game did grow. So, not sure where you got your figures. There were more senior matches in community Rugby in 2017 than in 2014.

    I suggest you keep your powder dry regarding Alison - hate for you to get egg on your face - be at least respectful and allow her to prove herself. She has not yet started. All clubs will receive an initiative that she has put together that is absolutely amazing. If she can get more spectators to each Community match - is that not a good thing? - more spectators = more beers does it not? If she can channel assistance to clubs where volunteer fatigue is settling in, is that not a good thing. For example - Joondalup Brothers required some IT help to put their sponsor's logos on the correspondence - Alison organised someone to help. Through Alison, clubs will be able to get help - another example - every club MUST have accounts audited by law. Some clubs have been paying around $3,000 to get this done each year - through Alison, there is a company prepared to do it FREE OF CHARGE - Is that a good thing?

    Alison also - using her own money - downloaded all ARU board papers and accounts for past 7 years from ATO and ASIC websites. She then spent close on 200 man hours digesting and posting on TWF some of the crooked dealings. This led to the Senate enquiry and right now ASIC are still investigating. Yes we lost the war, but through Alison's diligence and absolute dedication and love for Rugby Union she has provided the Authorities with the data needed to investigate and let's hope charges are laid.

    So, Mr. Ken - keep your powder dry on your opinion of Alison as right now you are so wrong. Alison's skill set in Forensic accounting and governance adds to your board. I am sure you'd prefer we appoint someone with the necessary skills that adds value than someone without these skills.

    If the community agrees with you Ken - I will be moved on tomorrow night, so, why not come to the AGM and satisfy yourself seeing me disappear into the wilderness if that is the will of the people. It could be an amazing night for you.

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  3. #18
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansie View Post
    Yes we lost the war
    No, we lost the battle, the war continues for as long as there's still hope.

    IPRC = hope that professional rugby will return and remain in WA
    ASIC = hope that the corrupt leaders of Rugby Australia will see justice
    SuperRugby TV rights negotiation = hope that Super Rugby will be remunerated appropriately for their duplicitous dealings and mismanagement.

    therefore I would suggest the war rages along quite nicely.

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    C'mon the

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansie View Post
    Yes we lost the war,
    Name:  dfWGP3E.jpg
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  5. #20
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    "Look at this site. A year ago at this time there were dozen upon dozen of posts on Metropolitan Rugby; today there would be lucky to be 3 or 4 regular posters, and if I handn't put up a couple of threads on the subject over the last 3 or 4 weeks, there wouldn't have been any.

    These are facts, guys, not just the rantings of a bitter old man past his use by date. Facts, biting our arse as we all deny reality and howl impotently at the moon."

    Poor Fulvio. It looks like you have been left behind. There is a nice new Facebook page which has over 1100 members and is very active with lots of clubs stuff happening. Relax though Fulv, you would not enjoy it very much anyway.... They seem to be very positive about the future of Rugby in WA. Very little whingeing about RugbyWA.... Lots of people with positive suggestions and ideas working together to try and improve things.... Not your scene at all.

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  6. #21
    Legend Contributor fulvio sammut's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info, David.

    Any truth in the rumour you're standing for the board again?

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  7. #22
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    LOL.
    Gnawing on the ends of old plots again Fulvio.
    Still trying to work out my name.... I'll give you a clue. My initials are PBS. Sorry no D for David.
    No intention of standing for any Rugby positions Board or Club.
    LOL.

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  8. #23
    Legend Contributor fulvio sammut's Avatar
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    Nudge, nudge, wink wink, say no more.

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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansie View Post
    We still have talented players leapfrogging colts and heading straight into Prems or Reserve. We have the less talented Colts now advising us they are time poor and two lots of training, plus a Saturday eats into their casual work and play time schedules.

    So, yup you are right it is a comic book situation, happy to take all the blame if that makes you happy, but I think most people would agree we have tried new things ( like the u23's comp.) which failed, but unless you try something and fail, you don't learn.
    Yup, this colts situation is not unique to WA.

    It's an issue everywhere that rugby is played in Australia and there's no easy answer.

    Trying things to help the competition is worthwhile.

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  10. #25
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    this years colts are worrying .. but this years 18's is possibly worse so there are some real legacy issues about to hit over the next few years. We are losing them at the start and just as bad we seem to be losing them now at social grades. I wonder whether the focus should not be on the social grades getting stronger and providing a path for the younger ones to come into 5ths/4ths/3rds as assuming you won't hold interest with only 4-5 teams playing each other all year. And I understand a couple of those teams are registered with he bear minimum playing numbers. Lions even borrowing players from the Numbats to field a team in the trial match.

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    I'm pretending not to be affiliated to any club so shhhh

  11. #26
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    Is too late to fix this season, I suspect possibly. But its time for the re-build and colts should be a priority as this is where the growth will come from for senior rugby, first step should be leave it as 16's, 18's & 20's for at least 5 years and stop the consistant stuffing around we have had with 17's, 19's etc etc and variations for last 4 years. Young players like to know what is ahead of them and at the late teen ages some have not developed body size etc. and are simply not ready for seniors, but need to be kept in the game. Next point should be clubs who wish play in prems should have to field 1st, 2nd & colts. As some clubs appear to have not developed their junior ranks and have focused on trying to win the prems at any cost, should be given a timeframe to achive this. For example if a club has no u16, u18 or u20, they should have to produce at least 1 of these age groups next season or form a legitimate barbarian side and then parametres should be set for forthcoming years. If they cannot achive this they should forfeit the premier staus, hard call, but the future lies in the juniors and colts. People will scream and shout they do not have the personell in the area, consistantly bringing in players from interstate and overseas that move on after a couple of seasons is an expensive short term fix and will not rectify anything in the long term apart from some short term success. The problem is growth and sustainability, basically change must come or the game slowly gets smaller and dies.

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  12. #27
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    Dry July! Ex-Staff MO-vember Donator TWF Contributor!
    I know nothing about Western Australian Metropolitan Club Rugby.

    I know very little about Western Australian Rugby in general.

    Apart from what I read here.

    I do know about Club Rugby in other states and I do have an intimate knowledge of Sydney Subbies Rugby.

    let me give you some information-

    * Participation numbers are down across the board and have been on the decline for the last couple of years.

    * Sydney Club Rugby ( From Shute Shield to Division 6 Subbies Rugby) receive zero money from RA or NSW Rugby.

    * NSW Rugby expects all Teams in Shute Shield and Subbies are expected to field colts teams.

    * Shute Shield Must field 4 Grade teams and 3 Colts teams per club week in and week out. Colts players can only play 90 minutes of Rugby in a day. The player can not take the field after that time.

    * My Club - Division 3 Subbies Rugby must field 3 Senior Grade teams and 1 Colts team.

    * One of the Shute Shield Clubs is in very serious trouble.
    - It has lost all but one Sponsor
    - The Club owes its President Thousands(LOTS) of dollars.
    - The Current President demanded repayment of this money at the start of the season or he threatened to put the club into Voluntary Administration or he be elected President.
    - In the final Club Trial matches of the year - This club only fielded one Colts team (14 players) 2 Senior teams including multiple players that were recruited from the spectators attending and werent registered players when they took the field. Also, the same Colts team ran on the field to start the second colts game only to be prevented by the opposition Team Manager who recognised the colts from the previous game.
    - This Club is expected to be wound up and shut down by Mid May, if not sooner.

    * Another Shute Shield Club has sold its traditional club grounds and Rooms for a multi-million dollar deal, and is rumored to be moving to Western Sydney very soon. Possibly even next year.
    * Fees have gone up for all NSW Club Rugby. Some by more that 50%. My Club has to pay around $25K (it was 17K the year before to field 4 Senior teams and a Colts Team) to field 3 senior teams and one Colts team.
    * A Club in the Same Competition as my Club has already advised Subbies Rugby that they are unable to field a Colts team this Season.

    Numbers are down - its becoming harder and harder to recruit players. NSW Rugby seems to see the best way to fix this is by Demanding Clubs have a Colts team. And penalising the Clubs unable to do so.

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    I stopped waiting for the light at the end of tunnel and lit that bitch up myself!

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Political BS View Post
    "Look at this site. A year ago at this time there were dozen upon dozen of posts on Metropolitan Rugby; today there would be lucky to be 3 or 4 regular posters, and if I handn't put up a couple of threads on the subject over the last 3 or 4 weeks, there wouldn't have been any.

    These are facts, guys, not just the rantings of a bitter old man past his use by date. Facts, biting our arse as we all deny reality and howl impotently at the moon."

    Poor Fulvio. It looks like you have been left behind. There is a nice new Facebook page which has over 1100 members and is very active with lots of clubs stuff happening. Relax though Fulv, you would not enjoy it very much anyway.... They seem to be very positive about the future of Rugby in WA. Very little whingeing about RugbyWA.... Lots of people with positive suggestions and ideas working together to try and improve things.... Not your scene at all.
    What is the name of this Facebook page you speak of?

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  14. #29
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    sea of blue

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  15. #30
    Legend Contributor fulvio sammut's Avatar
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    Is that the facebook page that doesn't appear to have a post on it since the 27th November last year, and then only dribble about people's sausages?

    David, really?



    Or is there another one?

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