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Thread: 2018 Western Force Memberships Open

  1. #91
    Legend Contributor brokendown gunfighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison View Post
    I am giving up on this site. It’s poisonous, full of some very sad, jealous and bitter people and a very unpleasant place to spend time.

    Thanks for having me Coach.

    Goodbye all.
    that's what they want you to do,Alison---you going to let them get their jollies?

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  2. #92
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    Well, as a relative newbie who has enjoyed the banter of the site over the last few years
    and who has taken great solace from the communal solidarity under the horrors of the last twelve months,
    And without knowing any one here from a bar of soap
    I do hope we can retain some of the really positive good nature of the site , especially given some good news /light in the tunnel thi week.
    On a brighter note, me and me daughter tonight numbers 2357/8
    Go local rugby and the force

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  3. #93
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    Y'know - one cannot blame Alison.

    I have to say, the few people who some how think they speak on behalf of Community Rugby, why don't you come forward on March 28th and show community that you are well versed in all things community. All of you naysayers are filled with negative - "well in years gone by we got duded and, this and that terrible thing happened, and forever more we will always hold a negative opinion" "Rehabilitation is not on the menu, changed circumstances don't count and Oh by the way - it worked in good old days so it must work now"

    I hope you naysayers still use the old Bakelite circular telephones and telex machines - because you are dinosaurs, you live in the past, you revel in the past and probably still have a poster of Winston Churchill in your office, or maybe Menzies.

    15 years ago Community Rugby was run out of Perry lakes, we had our own stadium, a president and staff who managed the competition as best they could and all was well.

    For the moment let's leave the Force out of this discussion.

    15 years ago, I think from memory we had 10 premier grade clubs and 6 district clubs, we had the odd occasional visit from the ARU to help with coaching and refereeing courses, but in essence we ran the show ourselves. Clubs didn't need accounts to be audited, bar managers didn't need certificates to serve alcohol, in fact alcohol licences were not policed, players played the game for the love of the game, those that aspired to higher honours like Will Brock, Adam Wallace-Harrison, and before them, John Welborn, (I am sure there were more ) headed East and we all loved it. Insurance was cheap, police clearance not necessary to coach juniors - just a working with children certificate, mad Mondays were loud and fun, clubs had parties, noise and lots of drinking every Saturday, but all was good.

    Today - Clubs must have a Constitution by law, must have accounts audited by law, alcohol licences and serving credentials by law, noise and "anti-social" behaviour is outlawed by law. Coaches must have ARU accreditation, Insurance to cover players is mandatory, there are a few more people playing rugby in Juniors, women's and men's, financial pressures on clubs to pay rent, and cover all of the legal requirements have gone through the roof, and so the list goes on..

    Now I am sure those sad naysayers will say " Yup - Hansie this is all RugbyWA's fault".

    This is a fact of life. How do you manage and control all of this ? RA officials are either over on a weekly basis, or RugbyWA have to have someone over there. - referee coaching, coaching courses, community advisors, game management, sponsorship requirements, fixture co-ordination and so the list goes on.

    We now have 19 senior clubs, a lot more players, less need for our talent to have to go over East to be "spotted" - this includes not only players but Refs too.

    Player registrations, judicial issues and player movements have to be a lot tighter. For example a player red carded in NSW or even N.Z. and rubbed out for a period, cannot think that by moving West they can play on...

    15 years ago, community announcements, news, bulletins etc came out perhaps at best once a month or on an as needs basis. Today Community Clubs are flooded with paperwork almost daily.

    When Rick was President, he had a great team who were able to spend hours in Community and minutes in the office doing paperwork, sadly I think it's fair to say, our RugbyWA team spends Hours in the office and heaps of after hours in community.

    No - the above is not a defence of what we do, but just putting out the facts in a broad sense. - yes I have missed one or two activities and I have no doubt the nitpicking negative folk will point that out.

    So, Fulvio referenced I may be some sort of Straw Man, but one thing I can say - you all know who I am, you all know where I am, you all know I put in quite a few hours each day for RugbyWA, as do so many others, and if you don't know, my motivation is to show the rest of Australia we can grow a community comp that can rival anything, anywhere in the world. May I also say, This is what motivates Alison and a number of others too.

    Future Force has selected 12 West Australian Boys, from our community to be coached by an RA paid, high performance coach and assistant, located in Minderoo financed facilities, for the benefit of our Community Clubs and for the benefit of these boys to get the type of coaching needed so they can realise their dreams. These 12 boys will play premiergrade rugby in our Community Comp in 2018, if we can grow the funding, we will grow the number of boys. After Super W, 3 or 4 girls will join this academy.

    Twiggy has been generous to the extreme, he has given us a lifeline and yes - he expects something in return - wouldn't you?

    Would you naysayers ( you know who you are) prefer we should have gone into Liquidation?

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  4. #94
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    I maybe a naysayer but why are we in this situation in the first place
    Can you explain to community rugby why they went into voluntary administration and what community rugby clubs dragged us into this situation
    Maybe it’s time that the Force and community rugby went there own ways

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  5. #95
    Legend Contributor fulvio sammut's Avatar
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    A "straw man" is a scenario where you attribute issues and positions to an opponent which were never raised by him or her, proceed to demolish those imaginary positions, and fail to address the actual issues that were in fact raised.

    A "unicorn" is a scenario when, being unable to refute an argument or deny a position, one party raises an entirely separate issue and effectively changes the discussion to the issue nobody has raised.

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  6. #96
    Senior Player antiussentiment's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansie View Post
    probably still have a poster of Winston Churchill in your office, or maybe Menzies.
    Wow, that's jarring. A bloke who thought using chemical weapons on natives was ok.. ..and another who said he was happy to see Aussie children starve if it meant Australia payed it's WW1 debt to mother England..

    ..and I'd like to raise my hand and apologise for using something I saw years ago in the old WARU days, to make a blanket criticism of the current rugby wa board. Random vent failure here..

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    Last edited by antiussentiment; 09-03-18 at 08:42.
    cheers auss...
    fabricarti diem punc

  7. #97
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    To best answer your concerns drop me a PM, I can then answer in detail without boring our TWF folk, No this is not me avoiding going public, you would be very welcome to post any communication between you and I in the public domain. We have explained a number of times both here and at forums where Community Club leaders were present, how and why we went into VA. I am sure if you also take the time to read the Senate enquiry report you will see how we got into the situation we did. However, if you prefer not to read the senate report, nor attend or ask your community club leader how we got into VA, then by all means I will do my best to brief you.

    I can also confirm the Force and Community Rugby are two totally different entities. Minderoo own the Force, RugbyWA manage the Community Competition. Neither Minderoo nor Twiggy have any influence over Community Rugby. They do allow us to use the facilities and locate our offices in our building for which they are paying the rent, they do contribute significantly to the Future Force, but have absolutely no influence on Future Force selection, coaching, but do allow the Future Force to use the GYM and facilities for which they are paying the rent. Future Force does not pay Minderoo a cent for this privilege, RugbyWA also does not pay Minderoo.

    Minderoo have contracted the professional players, they have hired the stadium, they have licensed the name from RugbyWA, they therefore get to sell memberships, find sponsors, sell broadcasting rights - none of which goes to RA. All going well and Minderoo make a profit, then Minderoo will be happy. Part of each player's contract is also a commitment to put 350 hours p.a. into community. This time and commitment comes at ZERO cost to community rugby. This 350 hour commitment is for each of the 30 or 40 players. Bear in mind all of the Force matches currently confirmed are at HOME, so Community will see these players here, not on 2,3 and 4 weeks overseas trips.

    I have to say, I still cannot see any downside.

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  8. #98
    Senior Player antiussentiment's Avatar
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    Forum threads are long and information is often lost on all but the most attentive. If you are a casual/occasional visitor, you'll likely never see important things.

    Which is why I wonder if Hansie's post (below) should be stickied on the front page some where? A very good explanation that explains things well to the lazy reader (me)..

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    Last edited by antiussentiment; 09-03-18 at 08:45.
    cheers auss...
    fabricarti diem punc

  9. #99
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    Thanks Fulvio for that - I guess I don't see you nor anybody in community as an OPPONENT. I do see many who don't have all of the facts and information and see many who see facts or news in a medium, form an opinion believing said facts in said medium must be 100% factual and truthful. No, none of these people are Opponents, perhaps misguided, but in my heart of hearts everyone of us want Rugby Union to rule. I also have said, please please if in any doubt ask questions of me and I shall answer, but please don't personally attack any RugbyWA employee or community volunteer, certainly question decisions and offer alternative avenues, BUT we should not be here to FIGHT or see each other as opponents.

    All of us have made some mistakes in the past and I shall tell you right now, we shall all make mistakes in the future, but none will be intentional nor attempting to destroy the code we all love.

    Thanks for definition of Unicorn, I guess this would be subjective and a unicorn in one person's eyes may not be in another on exactly the same argument. Being an Engineer, everything is governed by the laws of physics - ie Black or white. A learned friend of mine, a lecturer in Law, disagrees with me - his view is there is no such thing as Black or white, just varying shades of grey and after being pressed to explain he went further to say one man's definition of an argument may not be another's. So, in your eyes I am a Unicorn and I respect your label - but not agree with you.

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  10. #100
    Rookie Greydemon's Avatar
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    To Paraphrase Darren's signature...

    Dear Lord, if you give us back Alison you can take Fulvio...gladly.

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    Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.

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  11. #101
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    Geez I've not had much to do with community rugby here in Perth Barr going to watch a mate who plays oldies for Pally. I am keen to get in a bit more to help and hopefully see this game go from strength to strength. But with some of the shitty fucken 1980s, voluntary clubman bullshit comments coming out here why would you want to turn up and give up .your time or ideas to help the game. Fulvio I absolutely enjoy the banter and shit but really some of the others around here having a go and constantly putting everything down is seriously shit!

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  12. #102
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    And yes coach waiting for payday to get my membership. Giddy up.

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  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by boof1050 View Post
    Geez I've not had much to do with community rugby here in Perth Barr going to watch a mate who plays oldies for Pally. I am keen to get in a bit more to help and hopefully see this game go from strength to strength. But with some of the shitty fucken 1980s, voluntary clubman bullshit comments coming out here why would you want to turn up and give up .your time or ideas to help the game. Fulvio I absolutely enjoy the banter and shit but really some of the others around here having a go and constantly putting everything down is seriously shit!
    Gday Boof

    I can understand your concerns. But I will promise you this. And anyone from TWF that was to go to a club and say "I want to help" will be welcomed with open and loving arms.

    The banter, friendly and not so friendly is what it is.

    But the Love of Rugby is what its all about. And what Hansie, Fulvio, Westie and even Darkness (and others) all share.

    The passion that develops from being with the Club day in and day out. Doing the tough stuff. Going to training on a cold June evening when you swear the ground is covered with ice and it feels like its minus 15 with a windchill and taking that same group to a Grand Final and partying with them after. Its like that feeling we all got just after Hodgo kicked that penalty in his last Force match, only 5 times stronger.

    I hope you all give Club Rugby a go. You will be glad you did.

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  14. #104
    Legend Contributor fulvio sammut's Avatar
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    I don't think you are a unicorn or a straw man.

    A unicorn is something that doesn't exist, therefore to say "look, over there, a unicorn" is intended to be a distraction.

    A straw man is also something that doesn't exist, it is a creation of what someone prefers the other sides argument to be, a weaker or untenable position, and then argue that that weaker or untenable position is the actual position, which is then demolished. In other words, an imaginary position is created for the opponent (the "straw man") and it is that position which is argued, not the opponents actual position.

    I have raised many queries and taken many positions on this site, perhaps too many, but that arises from, firstly, a sound and robust background in grass roots rugby administration over many years, secondly, professional training which assists me to dissect and minutely analyise what is being said, and more significantly, what is not being said, thirdly, a natural and unhealthy cynicism, which comes from age and personal experience, and lastly, an ability to articulate and cut to the chase on most issues.

    Sure, like all of us I carry baggage, bear resentment for past disappointments and bad faith, and won't willingly allow myself to be treated as a fool.

    Having said that, I don't play the man, and have assidiously chased the ball. That has caused embarrasment at times (for me included) but has in the main exposed and disclosed matters which should see the light of day, and be openly and fairly discussed and, hopefully resolved.

    There have been positions put, and assertions made, regarding the Force, club rugby, Mindaroo, contractual obligations, financial support, Constitutional interpretations and related matters, which, at best have been confusing, and at worst, deceptive.

    Hansie, your post today confirms everything I suspected to be the case, and it is the first unequivocal statement of the position I have heard from someone in authority, and I thank you for that. I have absolutely no argument with the position as you have stated it to be, and I think it to be the best possible practical outcome.

    Let's move on in a spirit of transparency, without recriminations for past mistakes, without the dessemination of critical information which affects us all only on a "need to know basis" and critically, importantly, with an acceptance that some wrong decisions have been made, and need to be corrected, and to have the courage to do so, effectively, immediately, and without concern for bruised egos or saving face.

    In particular, I refer you to the current structure of the local club competition.

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  15. #105
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    Thanks Frank, we're on the same page.

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