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Thread: OH MY, OH MY!

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    Legend Contributor fulvio sammut's Avatar
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    OH MY, OH MY!

    I just read in the online West Australian that the Langoulant report, on allegedly nefarious and incompetent activities conducted under and by the Barnett Administration, has made damning findings and conclusions regarding the Road Safety Commission's sponsorship of the Western Force just hours before the last state election.

    These findings have been referred to the Corruption and Crime Commission for further action.

    There is also a mysterious reference in the Langoulant Report to a letter written in December 2016 by then Premier Barnett to a party said to have been interested in buying the Western Force Franchise. The letter is said to have rejected a proposal put to the Premier by that party to so acquire the Franchise.

    No doubt the Corruption and Crimes Commission will come to some conclusions on the matters referred to it in due course.

    In the meantime, I have some questions.

    1 What and when did RugbyWA know about this Proposal?

    2 If RugbyWA was aware of it, was this communicated to the clubs?

    3 If not, why not?

    4 If so, what was the response of the clubs, who was consulted and when, and why was this information not made public to the Sea of Blue and other Western Force members and stake holders?

    5 What authority did the Premier have to accept or reject proposals relating to the Western Force?

    6 If he had that Authority, who delegated it to him from within RugbyWA, or by what other means did he acquire such Authority, when, and why?

    7 If such Authority was delegated to the premier, by what Authority was such delegation made, by whom, when and why?

    8 If the proposal to purchase the Western Force was known to RugbyWA, was this information conveyed in any submission by RugbyWA to the Senate Inquiry into the alleged activities of the ARU, it's officers, agents and servants?

    9 If not, why not?

    10 If so, who made that submission, when and in what circumstances and context?

    11 Is it known by RugbyWA now who the proposed purchaser was?

    12 If so, will RugbyWA now divulge this information to its stake holders?

    Let's have a little transparency here.

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    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    13 why are you asking so many questions about the proposed sale of the Western force of RugbyWA? At the time, they weren't the owners of that property and therefore had no control.

    That was made perfectly obvious when the franchise was assassinated

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    C'mon the

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    So does this suggest the force and the wa government are corrupt. Sounds like something the nasty people from the east would do.just saying.

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    Champion andrewg's Avatar
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    With the loss of Emirates sponsorship, and despite the front-of-jersey support, clearly the Western Force was in financial trouble and looking at options - including getting assistance from the State Govt. Clearly an unbudgeted item so the $$s had to be found somewhere. Shows a bit of initiative and the WF gained the $$s.

    I'm happy that the State Govt stepped in with sponsorship - as it was better than just sitting watching the WF simply roll-over.

    Looks like one side of politics having a go at the other side of politics to me.

    The CCC should get into some real action and complete the investigation into the crooked dealings done by Bruce Wilson et al in the AWU supported by his girl friend Julia Gillard or the corruption/dirty dealings in the building industry by the CFMEU.

    Can we go back to talking about rugby union and the many positive things that are happening around the Western Force and IPRC?

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    Last edited by andrewg; 21-02-18 at 07:45.

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    No doubt this will be big news over East!!! They've ignored the positives now a negative will be well reported I'm sure..

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    Legend Contributor blueandblack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jules View Post
    No doubt this will be big news over East!!! They've ignored the positives now a negative will be well reported I'm sure..
    http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/wed...ugby-news-204/

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    The CCC is a WA body, not federal. It would be investigating a decision by the WA government of the day. If someone contacted the Premier, then my guess is it was because RA was planning/seeing what would happen if they flogged off the Force to the highest bidder (with or without telling RWA) i.e. would the RSC sponsorship be maintained. Knowing the tin ear on them, probably wondering if WA would keep giving them money even if they relocated to West Sydney, as was the other likely outcome at the time.

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    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    It must be noted that the Inquiry was NOT looking into the actions of the Western Force. The only focus of the Inquiry was the process and decision-making of the public officials involved in the matter.

    Anyone who seeks to claim otherwise is either dumb or looking to cause mischief. Either is possible in the case of eastern trolls.

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    Champion Contributor todd4's Avatar
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    I remember reading in the paper a couple of years ago about a NZ guy who wanted to buy the Force. He was going to invest 5 mil per year for 10 years?? He was one of the guys who owns/owned the Highlanders franchise. Nothing much came from it. Maybe this was the offer talked about?

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    Rookie JPR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fulvio sammut View Post
    I just read in the online West Australian that the Langoulant report, on allegedly nefarious and incompetent activities conducted under and by the Barnett Administration, has made damning findings and conclusions regarding the Road Safety Commission's sponsorship of the Western Force just hours before the last state election.

    These findings have been referred to the Corruption and Crime Commission for further action.

    There is also a mysterious reference in the Langoulant Report to a letter written in December 2016 by then Premier Barnett to a party said to have been interested in buying the Western Force Franchise. The letter is said to have rejected a proposal put to the Premier by that party to so acquire the Franchise.

    No doubt the Corruption and Crimes Commission will come to some conclusions on the matters referred to it in due course.

    In the meantime, I have some questions.

    1 What and when did RugbyWA know about this Proposal?

    2 If RugbyWA was aware of it, was this communicated to the clubs?

    3 If not, why not?

    4 If so, what was the response of the clubs, who was consulted and when, and why was this information not made public to the Sea of Blue and other Western Force members and stake holders?

    5 What authority did the Premier have to accept or reject proposals relating to the Western Force?

    6 If he had that Authority, who delegated it to him from within RugbyWA, or by what other means did he acquire such Authority, when, and why?

    7 If such Authority was delegated to the premier, by what Authority was such delegation made, by whom, when and why?

    8 If the proposal to purchase the Western Force was known to RugbyWA, was this information conveyed in any submission by RugbyWA to the Senate Inquiry into the alleged activities of the ARU, it's officers, agents and servants?

    9 If not, why not?

    10 If so, who made that submission, when and in what circumstances and context?

    11 Is it known by RugbyWA now who the proposed purchaser was?

    12 If so, will RugbyWA now divulge this information to its stake holders?

    Let's have a little transparency here.
    Who wanted to buy the Force franchise back in December 2016. This would of been made about the time a SANZAAR meeting was being held in November 2016 @ Luxembourg to vote on 3 options wether to cull 3 teams,2 teams or none keeping it at 18 Super Rugby teams

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    One Team - One Dream - Go The Western Force

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    Immortal Contributor The InnFORCEr's Avatar
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    Could "Own The Force" have been the party interested??

    Wee the share options a thing at that time?

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    Champion Bakkies's Avatar
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    Doubt that would have been allowed in the Prospectus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fulvio sammut View Post
    I just read in the online West Australian that the Langoulant report, on allegedly nefarious and incompetent activities conducted under and by the Barnett Administration, has made damning findings and conclusions regarding the Road Safety Commission's sponsorship of the Western Force just hours before the last state election.

    These findings have been referred to the Corruption and Crime Commission for further action.

    There is also a mysterious reference in the Langoulant Report to a letter written in December 2016 by then Premier Barnett to a party said to have been interested in buying the Western Force Franchise. The letter is said to have rejected a proposal put to the Premier by that party to so acquire the Franchise.

    No doubt the Corruption and Crimes Commission will come to some conclusions on the matters referred to it in due course.

    In the meantime, I have some questions.

    1 What and when did RugbyWA know about this Proposal?

    2 If RugbyWA was aware of it, was this communicated to the clubs?

    3 If not, why not?

    4 If so, what was the response of the clubs, who was consulted and when, and why was this information not made public to the Sea of Blue and other Western Force members and stake holders?

    5 What authority did the Premier have to accept or reject proposals relating to the Western Force?

    6 If he had that Authority, who delegated it to him from within RugbyWA, or by what other means did he acquire such Authority, when, and why?

    7 If such Authority was delegated to the premier, by what Authority was such delegation made, by whom, when and why?

    8 If the proposal to purchase the Western Force was known to RugbyWA, was this information conveyed in any submission by RugbyWA to the Senate Inquiry into the alleged activities of the ARU, it's officers, agents and servants?

    9 If not, why not?

    10 If so, who made that submission, when and in what circumstances and context?

    11 Is it known by RugbyWA now who the proposed purchaser was?

    12 If so, will RugbyWA now divulge this information to its stake holders?

    Let's have a little transparency here.
    Interesting can of worms you have opened up Fulvio.

    Are you suggesting that any proposal put to RugbyWA must now go through all stakeholders for input?

    For instance we get proposals, mostly informal, some through third parties and others direct and formal to help with academies, sponsorship, partnerships and supply enquiries ranging from mouthguards to governance services. To be quite Frank most of them we see lack of benefit for Community and reject, some we seek more details and they fall by the wayside, others try to get higher authorities to influence us or to sweeten their proposal and some are of considerable benefit and meet our criteria.

    I don't know how we then submit all of these proposals to all stakeholders - I gather you mean all approx. 20 community clubs, life members, associated unions ( juniors, country, schools and womens) .

    My understanding is that all of these stakeholders elect people to the board to do this work and those elected members then appoint others to fill gaps in the skillset. These people form the board and essentially carry out the due diligence, make decisions and subject themselves every 2 years to community stakeholders for re-election or rejection.

    Are you suggesting we change this?

    FYI - talk to Nick Taylor and he will send you links to all of the coverage he gave to the consortium referred to. Too much control over Western Australian Rugby was requested in our opinions and too little in the form of long term benefits. There was the suggestion that if the WA govt provided some concessions ( I honestly am not sure of what or how much) those concessions could satisfy our security needs. We saw little prospect of it going ahead because one major factor - we were not giving up control of the Western Force.

    Personally I was very sceptical. If you want to buy a Team and need to get other unrelated parties to help you and then you believe you can exercise full control essentially using someone else's money - then you are not committed. There was no unencumbered or unconditional offer ever received.

    Fulvio if you still inherently believe the RugbyWA board is incompetent, does not have the best interests of Rugby in WA as it's mantra - you must replace the board, you must stand at the next election at the AGM and input your skillset onto the board.

    Had we been serious about the proposal and were getting the commitments and guarantees we needed, rest assured all detail would be provided, but if the proposal was not even going to get past 1st base - why would you want to know all of the details? Bear in mind Languolant has also said Papalia and Adams have reserved their right and not provided any documents, so Langoulant is rightly peeved he does not have their side of the story and nor does he have this letter ( December 2016) and all preceding minutes, e-mails and documents, naturally there is reference to such a letter and hence his comment is loaded with frustration and that is why he has referred it to the CCC.

    Your questions about the Premier's authority - geez Fulvio and who gave it to him - I don't know? He certainly has no authority over RugbyWA - I can assure you of that. We certainly have never given him any authority to say anything on our behalf - that's just ridiculous.

    I am sure Nick can fill you in with more details, a lot was put into the media ( public domain).

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    Immortal Contributor The InnFORCEr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansie View Post
    If you want to buy a Team and need to get other unrelated parties to help you and then you believe you can exercise full control essentially using someone else's money - then you are not committed. There was no unencumbered or unconditional offer ever received.
    Did Cox try and buy us as well

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    Legend Contributor fulvio sammut's Avatar
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    1.I suggest any proposal for the sale of the Western Force is sufficiently important to be put to its members and supporters.

    If the proposal is ridiculous, they will quickly appreciate that fact. Such disclosure will enhance, not diminish the standing of the governing body.
    You are seeking to conflate the issue of disposal of a core asset with matters which are trivialities. You are not comparing apples with apples, and are then attempting to apply an argument of reductio ad absurdum based on an inappropriate factual matrix.

    2. I acknowledge your frank admission of your inability to communicate with your constituent members.

    3. The process of election and nomination of members of the board is in my view outdated and undemocratic
    However I have not raised this issue in my post, and your doing so in a purported reply to it, is, colloquially, known as a "straw man" or a "unicorn".

    4. i do not subscribe to the West Australian and only refer to its online edition when I am specifically referred to an article of possible interest.
    I do not know the journalist Nick Taylor personally.
    I have never read anything in respect of this issue on this website or, in my view, more significantly if it was in the public domain, on the RugbyWA website. Please refer me to the article on the RugbyWA website if I have inadvertently overlooked it.

    5.I am gratified to receive your confirmation that RugbyWA were aware of the offer, had rejected it, and were not privy to any communications between the offeror and the Premier on that subject. The Question regarding any Authority he had to usurp the powers and rights of RugbyWA has been answered by you in the negative, and I accept that response.

    6. I have never asserted that RugbyWA Board was incompetent. They have been more than competent in driving their agenda's in respect of community rugby. I just happen to believe some of those agendas have been misconceived, resulted in unfair outcomes and were the wrong decisions to make.
    In respect of the administration of the Force I have largely refrained from making comment as I did not have the lived, hands on experience of administering a professional rugby concern. The sad outcome of the Force's demise, the entering into of the Alliance Agreement, and the ensuing litigation were of some concern. I do not however suggest RugbyWA acted incompetently in that regard despite deep reservations regarding the negotiation of the Alliance Agreement.

    7. One does not need to be a member of the governing body of any institution to have the right to criticise it, to express displeasure with it, or to offer opinion and comment on its decisions. That too is a straw man. If I had the interest, time and inclination to stand for the board I would have done so long ago, without the need of your invitation to do so.

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    Last edited by fulvio sammut; 21-02-18 at 12:15.

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