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Thread: OH MY, OH MY!

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by fulvio sammut View Post
    1.I suggest any proposal for the sale of the Western Force is sufficiently important to be put to its members and supporters.

    If the proposal is ridiculous, they will quickly appreciate that fact. Such disclosure will enhance, not diminish the standing of the governing body.
    You are seeking to conflate the issue of disposal of a core asset with matters which are trivialities. You are not comparing apples with apples, and are then attempting to apply an argument of reductio ad absurdum based on an inappropriate factual matrix.

    2. I acknowledge your frank admission of your inability to communicate with your constituent members.

    3. The process of election and nomination of members of the board is in my view outdated and undemocratic
    However I have not raised this issue in my post, and your doing so in a purported reply to it, is, colloquially, known as a "straw man" or a "unicorn".

    4. i do not subscribe to the West Australian and only refer to its online edition when I am specifically referred to an article of possible interest.
    I do not know the journalist Nick Taylor personally.
    I have never read anything in respect of this issue on this website or, in my view, more significantly if it was in the public domain, on the RugbyWA website. Please refer me to the article on the RugbyWA website if I have inadvertently overlooked it.

    5.I am gratified to receive your confirmation that RugbyWA were aware of the offer, had rejected it, and were not privy to any communications between the offeror and the Premier on that subject. The Question regarding any Authority he had to usurp the powers and rights of RugbyWA has been answered by you in the negative, and I accept that response.

    6. I have never asserted that RugbyWA Board was incompetent. They have been more than competent in driving their agenda's in respect of community rugby. I just happen to believe some of those agendas have been misconceived, resulted in unfair outcomes and were the wrong decisions to make.
    In respect of the administration of the Force I have largely refrained from making comment as I did not have the lived, hands on experience of administering a professional rugby concern. The sad outcome of the Force's demise, the entering into of the Alliance Agreement, and the ensuing litigation were of some concern. I do not however suggest RugbyWA acted incompetently in that regard despite deep reservations regarding the negotiation of the Alliance Agreement.

    7. One does not need to be a member of the governing body of any institution to have the right to criticise it, to express displeasure with it, or to offer opinion and comment on its decisions. That too is a straw man. If I had the interest, time and inclination to stand for the board I would have done so long ago, without the need of your invitation to do so.
    Fulvio

    I do respect and appreciate your comments. Constructive dialogue and questions on procedure and action by us must be forthcoming, we are human and will continue to make mistakes and being responsible for them and improving outcomes is really the end goal.

    Let me try and answer your questions.

    1. The Force was and never has been for Sale. We did not seek out any buyers. In fact during this time we were focussed on community ownership through Own The Force. This proposal came to us unsolicited. We never even met these people.

    I go back to my earlier comments - Are you suggesting all unsolicited proposals should go to all stakeholders?

    Please by all means counsel me and advise me how to communicate to all constituents.

    If stakeholders do not subscribe to nor read the major print media as well the respective print media's online electronic news, how do we economically appraise them of ridiculous, unsolicited proposals. It was never put on RugbyWA's media as once again, we had a bunch of guys come and tell us they could save us, make our team rich on the proviso our govt come to the party and in return they want our team. I do believe it did go on TWF - I don't have time to research the threads, but if my failing memory serves me correctly it is here somewhere.

    Pardon my ignorance but I don't understand the terms Straw Man or Unicorn.

    Believe me, to this day every single one of us reflect on what transpired and "how the F&%K we got duped". How did 3 eminent Q.C.'s also get it so wrong? So, Fulvio, you all have the right to question our competency, we still do that to this day.

    You are right and allow me to re-inforce the point above - criticism is welcome - my offer to you and to everyone within our community is that should the responses to the criticism be unsatisfactory, or the criticism has a common thread and you are personally and continually embarrassed and annoyed at us, then you should fix it.

    I shall always answer questions and accept criticism on decisions and actions we undertake, I play the ball. If and when we or any person working at RugbyWA gets personally or as a group attacked ( ie playing the man) then you or anyone can expect an offer to come and fix it.

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    To save everyone having to click it was

    The “big four” behind the campaign can today be revealed by the Daily Telegraph, and include former ARU chief executive Gary Flowers and the Force’s inaugural chief Peter O’Meara.
    Alongside them are highly successful businessmen Jon Collins, himself a former ARU and Waratahs director, and ground signage guru Raymond Burke, who has pledged to pump $50 million into the Force over the next 10 years if he can strike a deal with the West Australian government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The InnFORCEr View Post
    To save everyone having to click it was

    The “big four” behind the campaign can today be revealed by the Daily Telegraph, and include former ARU chief executive Gary Flowers and the Force’s inaugural chief Peter O’Meara.
    Alongside them are highly successful businessmen Jon Collins, himself a former ARU and Waratahs director, and ground signage guru Raymond Burke, who has pledged to pump $50 million into the Force over the next 10 years if he can strike a deal with the West Australian government.
    I suggest that people read the Telegraph article in full.

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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSJ View Post
    I suggest that people read the Telegraph article in full.
    Here it is as I got behind Rupert's paywall

    Quartet of powerbrokers trying to rescue Western Force from Super Rugby cull
    JAMIE PANDARAM, The Daily Telegraph
    April 17, 2017 7:40pm
    A GROUP of heavyweight rugby identities and millionaire businessmen are plotting to save the Western Force from Super Rugby oblivion.

    The “big four” behind the campaign can today be revealed by the Daily Telegraph, and include former ARU chief executive Gary Flowers and the Force’s inaugural chief Peter O’Meara.

    Alongside them are highly successful businessmen Jon Collins, himself a former ARU and Waratahs director, and ground signage guru Raymond Burke, who has pledged to pump $50 million into the Force over the next 10 years if he can strike a deal with the West Australian government.

    Flowers, O’Meara and Collins have all purchased shares in the Own The Force campaign, which insiders say has pledges of $8 million.


    Former ARU boss Gary Flowers is one of quarter of rugby powerbrokers seeking to save the Western Force from being culled from Super Rugby.
    “This idea of community ownership is worth exploring, and Perth is a unique market compared to Queensland and NSW because of the connection to the community,” O’Meara said.

    SUPER RUGBY CULL: Rebels call for quick resolution

    “We’ve all been involved in rugby for a long time and we are right behind this - are we all silly?”

    Burke, who co-owns New Zealand’s Highlanders franchise, had a proposal to take over the ground signage and ticketing at Force’s home ground nib Stadium rejected by the previous WA government, but it has been resubmitted.

    Defcon_MainEvent_fullonfooty2-k1eG-MajorEventPromotion650x366-650x366.jpg

    “We are not asking for any money from the government, we’re just asking for assets that we will turn around and invest into the Western Force, and I guarantee that if they give us the support the Force will win a premiership in five years like the Highlanders did,” Burke said.

    While that proposal is being reviewed by the government in Perth, the Force still has significant financial support flowing through.

    Collins, who sold his Sykes Group business in 2010 for $55 million, has not ruled out a private ownership bid of the club depending on the outcome of the legal writ the franchise has taken out against the ARU.


    The Western Force’s inaugural CEO Peter O’Meara.
    “The Own The Force campaign is a great initiative, I will be investing in it, and then I will be talking further to Peter [O’Meara] about what we can do once the legal action put in place has been resolved,” Collins said.

    “I was an ARU director from 2002-04 and we looked in detail at the two proposals from Perth and Victoria when we were introducing a new team, it was a resounding ‘yes’ for Perth to get the next Super Rugby side.

    “While they haven’t had success in winning the competition, there has been great success in junior development and grassroots enthusiasm.

    “Western Australian fans will feel as though they’ve been led down the garden path with what’s happened at the ARU over the past four months.”

    The ARU announced last Monday that either the Force or Melbourne Rebels will axed from the tournament.

    Flowers, who was running Australian rugby when the Force were introduced to Super Rugby in 2005, said it was imperative to see them remain in a rejigged 15-team tournament from next year.

    “Rugby can legitimately become the No.2 code in Western Australia [behind AFL], in Melbourne AFL is clearly No.1, then there is massive support for football, and then you’ve got the Storm who are very entrenched in the city,” Flowers said.

    “It is a tough job that the ARU have, one of the things I’m not sure has been done is an assessment of the impact of cutting a team.

    “It’s very well to say there’s a risk in keeping the same format, but what about the damage of losing a team.”

    Crowds across the SANZAAR board have been down since it was announced that three teams, including two from South Africa, would soon be axed.

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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakkies View Post
    “We are not asking for any money from the government, we’re just asking for assets that we will turn around and invest into the Western Force, and I guarantee that if they give us the support the Force will win a premiership in five years like the Highlanders did,” Burke said.
    The underlined section is probably the bit that scared the pants off the ARU. Nothing more likely to make them determined to shut us down than if we actually ended up more successful than NSW. [/tinfoil hat]

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  7. #22
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    On which universe. The one without the kiwis.

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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sloppy View Post
    On which universe. The one without the kiwis.
    Raymond Burke said that, and he is a Kiwi himself.

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  9. #24
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    Jeremy Paul is on Bill and Boz if you want to Tweet or text him some questions about the RA or else.

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    Pfftt.. The Corruption and Crime Commission will just explain it away if my experience was anything to go by.

    I had motorcycle cop become abusive two years ago. It was still annoying me a few days later so I made a formal complaint to the police asking if they'd look at his head cam footage and tell me if they thought his conduct was acceptable. The footage was lost evidently. No worries I have two witnesses to his behaviour in the car. Nope, case closed, take it too the CCC if you're not happy.

    The CCC said loosing evidence was just an administrative problem within the police force..

    Yeah right...

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiussentiment View Post
    ....The CCC said loosing evidence was just an administrative problem within the police force..

    Yeah right...
    Your honour, I robbed that bank because of an administrative problem in my wallet

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  12. #27
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    Hansie don't send a crew to Melbourne for a Super Rugby game as it will cost the grassroots money to put you up. The Rebels can't afford it themselves.

    As for playing the Rebels send them to Kalgoorlie or the Pilbara.

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  13. #28
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    Doubt it will happen.

    However, it's not the Rebels we have a issue with. The playing and coaching group are our people, will always be our people. their heart is west, they are plying their trade and we should give them as much support as possible. Some in the management of the Rebels are suspected of colluding with RA and it would be those people we have an issue with.

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    With all due respect to Hansie, I think there are probably a lot of people on here that have issues with the Rebels as well as RA.

    After all it takes two to tango and there was a noticeable lack of urgency by the Rebels to get on the front foot and make any public efforts to actively save their team during the Super Rugby team cull. This highlights what we all suspect, that the Rebels organisation knew it was safe and never on the chopping board. Regardless of how many former Force players are in the team, a dislike and distrust of the Rebels as an organisation has been established.

    The Daily Telegraph article indicating a 'Rebels Force Alliance' and the possibility of the Rebels playing an exhibition match against a make shift Force team is just a slap in the face to us. Its just like opening up an old wound. Its also awkward that apparently Rugby WA officials and sponsors are/have been invited to be at the Rebels opening game on Friday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moono74 View Post
    With all due respect to Hansie, I think there are probably a lot of people on here that have issues with the Rebels as well as RA.

    After all it takes two to tango and there was a noticeable lack of urgency by the Rebels to get on the front foot and make any public efforts to actively save their team during the Super Rugby team cull. This highlights what we all suspect, that the Rebels organisation knew it was safe and never on the chopping board. Regardless of how many former Force players are in the team, a dislike and distrust of the Rebels as an organisation has been established.

    The Daily Telegraph article indicating a 'Rebels Force Alliance' and the possibility of the Rebels playing an exhibition match against a make shift Force team is just a slap in the face to us. Its just like opening up an old wound. Its also awkward that apparently Rugby WA officials and sponsors are/have been invited to be at the Rebels opening game on Friday.
    I hope they told them where to shove the invites!

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    May the FORCE be with you!

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