IPRC TEAM & COACH

[Bakkies]

“That is our position. It protects the integrity of our domestic competition,” Robinson said.

Nonsense Brett. The RA still don't get it. Super Rugby is not a domestic competition nor is it the RA's competition. The Force and the IPRC have nothing to do with SANZAAR anymore.

Wallaby eligibility is also nonsense and these competitions aren't about test Rugby. Making it a training ground for test Rugby is why Super Rugby went down the gurgler in the first place. Graham Henry started it in 2007 pulling out the majority of his ABs squad from the first half of the competition so they can run around traffic cones to condition themselves for the RWC. The NZ public voted with their feet and they haven't exactly returned in the numbers that were rocking up in the Super 12 days.

The 140 odd players from Australia were willing to give that up when they signed contracts abroad this is before we get started on the SA and NZ players playing overseas who can't play test Rugby.

No way would SA be interested in further expansion in to Asia Pacific. Their teams weren't willing to go to Tokyo which is why the Sunwolves played home games in Singapore.

I dare the RA kick the Force out of the NRC, Twiggy will pull Minderoo's backing of that comp and expect a date in court.

[AndyS]

...Good players will opt to go to an NRC team that also has a super rugby team attached...

Which for mine is the real problem with the NRC. It relies on SR for player development, because the NRC teams are just rep teams thrown together a couple of weeks before the comp. They should be real teams, developing players through the year, from which players graduate to the fully professional teams but return for the NRC. Like in NZ.

Funnily enough, WA is almost closest to that. If the Future Force were expanded a bit, it could essentially be the NRC team less their professionals. Make that work, show how the NRC could be integrated with professional training for the best club players, and paying them to train more professionally while they are still showing out for their Premier teams...it could show what the NRC should be. And for mine, if Twiggy really wanted to "supercharge" the NRC, it would be by setting up something like that in Adelaide and maybe Newcastle so that they could then legitimately participate in the NRC.

No way would SA be interested in further expansion in to Asia Pacific.

I disagree. They wouldn't need to supply teams, I reckon they would jump at the possibility of a hundred of the players currently up in the NH and largely unavailable playing in Asia instead. They'd have no problems selecting them.

Frankly, if I was one of those Asian teams, I wouldn't be looking at Australian players anyway. I'd be looking at Japan for the money, New Zealand for the skills, the PI for the grunt and the Americas for the future.

[andrewg]

Even a "super-charged" NRC means that RA is still only offering WA a 3rd tier competition (a mixture of professionals and amateur players)- sitting below the eventually revamped Super Rugby.

The IPRC is a 2nd tier competition for professional players which sits below Test match rugby.

Can anybody point me towards any reference that SANZAAR or RA may have made regarding a move into the Indo Pacific region (or Asia) before the prospect was raised by Andrew Forrest in his initial announcement about the IPRC??

RA has never had an original idea in my living memory so this is yet another idea that they've stolen and presented as their own.

RA has done NOTHING to stop the move OS by Aussie rugby players.
Nothing shows this more than the OUT list for the Brumbies this year - 4 to Japan, 3 to UK, 1 to Arg, 3 to other SR teams:
Nigel Ah Wong (Japan)
Chris Alcock (Japan) [now to WF]
Jarrad Butler (Connacht)
Tomas Cubelli (Jaguares)
Anthony Fainga’a (Japan)
Saia Fainga’a (London Irish)
Scott Fardy (Leinster)
Nick Jooste (Queensland)
Jordan Smiler (Japan)
Tom Staniforth (Waratahs)
Aidan Toua (Queensland)

[Bakkies]

Funnily enough, WA is almost closest to that. If the Future Force were expanded a bit, it could essentially be the NRC team less their professionals. Make that work, show how the NRC could be integrated with professional training for the best club players, and paying them to train more professionally while they are still showing out for their Premier teams...it could show what the NRC should be.

The Spirit and the Vikings are exactly that. The Rising aren't as the Rabble still rely on the Sydney comp during the year and that won't change this year as they have taken far too long to name a Super Rugby squad (Wessels has already suggested that Debreczeni will start at 10 and he isn't even in the squad).

Re Newcastle that would involve the NSWRU and them making a decision on going back to an area that was snubbed by the Sydney clubs when the Wildfires were stuff around then kicked out of the Shute Shield. I can't recall the Country Eagles playing a match in Newcastle.

[andrewg]

I dare the RA kick the Force out of the NRC, Twiggy will pull Minderoo's backing of that comp and expect a date in court.

I've been checking all of the announcements since the axing of the Force.

There's been no confirmation by Andrew Forrest that the sponsoring of the NRC is still on the table.
It was initially offered as part of the inducement to retain the Western Force.
(If I recall correctly, it was only for $500,000)

I wouldn't be surprised if the offer for sponsorship has been withdrawn due to the lack of co-operation from RA.

[GIGS20]

Well it sounds like I'm thinking only one whose feckin pissed that rats arse are considering expansion less than 6 months after killing the force.

I thought expansion was the problem they were solving.

As for not wanting to be a roadblock..... That must be because they'd prefer to be a nuclear device.

[Bakkies]

Even a "super-charged" NRC means that RA is still only offering WA a 3rd tier competition (a mixture of professionals and amateur players)- sitting below the eventually revamped Super Rugby.

The IPRC is a 2nd tier competition for professional players which sits below Test match rugby.

Can anybody point me towards any reference that SANZAAR or RA may have made regarding a move into the Indo Pacific region (or Asia) before the prospect was raised by Andrew Forrest in his initial announcement about the IPRC??

RA has never had an original idea in my living memory so this is yet another idea that they've stolen and presented as their own.

RA has done NOTHING to stop the move OS by Aussie rugby players.
Nothing shows this more than the OUT list for the Brumbies this year - 4 to Japan, 3 to UK, 1 to Arg, 3 to other SR teams:
Nigel Ah Wong (Japan)
Chris Alcock (Japan) [now to WF]
Jarrad Butler (Connacht)
Tomas Cubelli (Jaguares)
Anthony Fainga’a (Japan)
Saia Fainga’a (London Irish)
Scott Fardy (Leinster)
Nick Jooste (Queensland)
Jordan Smiler (Japan)
Tom Staniforth (Waratahs)
Aidan Toua (Queensland)

Asia hasn't been looked at by the RA since O'Neill and the NZRU as a plan B were considering that as an option when SA threatened to move their teams over to European competitions eight years ago if they couldn't get the Kings in to Super Rugby.

I addressed the Brumbies outs in a response to a post by Force Fan on G&G. Cubelli had to go as he wouldn't of been allowed a contract extension, might have been different had he been at the Rebels who have two foreign capped internationals Mafi and Parling on their books. Ah Wong was surpassed by younger players like Muirhead and Banks. He went before Peni and Verity Amm were signed (the latter is on a EPS deal). The Fainga'a twins were both one year deals and pointless signings. Weren't going to get back in to the Wallabies under Cheika. Fardy had a falling out with Cheika and was stuffed around. Playing the house down for Leinster and his first child was born recently. Butler and Smiler weren't going to be capped and wouldn't have been on big money. Butler has played some good Rugby for Connacht.

There's been no confirmation by Andrew Forrest that the sponsoring of the NRC is still on the table.
It was initially offered as part of the inducement to retain the Western Force.
(If I recall correctly, it was only for $500,000)

Twiggy said in a press conference that Minderoo was going to back the NRC. I think he said that while last year's comp was still running.

[chrisk]

https://thewest.com.au/sport/western...-ng-b88751638z
But RA deputy chairman Brett Robinson claims there are two possible paths for the new Western Force – play in a stand-alone IPRC or a “supercharged” National Rugby Championship.

It sounds like the idea of the IPRC being a stand alone competition must have been discussed. The ARU don't seem to get it though - they're not in charge of this. It looks like things are going to happen with or without them, preferably with them, but it's not a requirement.

[AndyS]

The Spirit and the Vikings are exactly that. The Rising aren't as the Rabble still rely on the Sydney comp during the year and that won't change this year as they have taken far too long to name a Super Rugby squad (Wessels has already suggested that Debreczeni will start at 10 and he isn't even in the squad).

That would imply they are paying club players as semi-professionals, which is what the NRC should be doing. Not sure anyone is quite there yet.

Re Newcastle that would involve the NSWRU and them making a decision on going back to an area that was snubbed by the Sydney clubs when the Wildfires were stuff around then kicked out of the Shute Shield. I can't recall the Country Eagles playing a match in Newcastle.

Would it? I would have thought in the NRC they would play under Newcastle and Hunter Rugby Union. Especially if NSW is going to City and Country, which would/could logically align to NSWRU and NSWCRU (and only confirm what everyone already knows). Mind you, would be interesting to see the reaction if the IPRC established a structure where club players in SA and Newcastle were being paid, but not in Sydney...

[Bakkies]

I disagree. They wouldn't need to supply teams, I reckon they would jump at the possibility of a hundred of the players currently up in the NH and largely unavailable playing in Asia instead. They'd have no problems selecting them.

SA supply teams in Super Rugby and if they don't head off to Europe their sides would likely play matches against prospective Super Rugby teams and the Sunwolves in Asia home or away.

Would it? I would have thought in the NRC they would play under Newcastle and Hunter Rugby Union. Especially if NSW is going to City and Country, which would/could logically align to NSWRU and NSWCRU (and only confirm what everyone already knows). Mind you, would be interesting to see the reaction if the IPRC established a structure where club players in SA and Newcastle were being paid, but not in Sydney...

Newcastle and Hunter is a sub union. Anything else north of southern inland and the far south coast )which are part of the Brumbies catchment) along with not being in Sydney is part of the NSWCRU. The Eagles represent them.

[AndyS]

Always amazes me how often the way things are get pointed to as the reason something isn't possible. Don't even know why anyone is even looking at the IPRC...

They have dabbled in all sorts of joint ventures and ownerships in just a few years of NRC. Within our own competition, we can do what we like; there are only the 'rules' that get agreed. Personally I think the NRC should ultimately incorporate a whole bunch of things that just aren't done, starting with transfer fees.

[Bakkies]

Personally I think the NRC should ultimately incorporate a whole bunch of things that just aren't done, starting with transfer fees.

There are transfer fees in Rugby. In order to enforce them an on contract player that is recruited by another party.

[AndyS]

Those are certainly one form of transfer fee. And again, merely the way things typically are. But the issues with that don’t preclude any other arrangement, especially within a single competition to provide a compensation mechanism if a player moves teams.

[Bakkies]

Those are certainly one form of transfer fee. And again, merely the way things typically are. But the issues with that don’t preclude any other arrangement, especially within a single competition to provide a compensation mechanism if a player moves teams.

You can't have compensation for off contract players. That's one of the reasons why Soccer got in trouble in the 90s and it ended up in the courts.

Players are also allocated. Kyle Godwin was allocated to the Eagles when he joined the Brumbies. Sam Carter and Tom Cusack have played for the Eagles. Some ended up in Sydney.

The Brumbies did this to stop other sides accusing them of fielding a Super Rugby side in the NRC and to give uncontracted local talent the chance to get games.

[AndyS]

No, you can't force compensation for off contract players. There is nothing to stop two teams, or all the teams participating in a competition, or more importantly the rules of a competition, agreeing to teams compensating each other if players move.

And that would include allocation. Those players should return to their NRC teams. If the Vikings wanted them more than they want to develop local players, they should give the original teams some of their salary cap to allow them to either source replacements themselves or to spend on further player development. The salary cap would remain a closed system, all that would change is where the money was being spent.