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Thread: All Time Western Force Player "ranking"

  1. #31
    Champion Bakkies's Avatar
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    Giteau should have a higher ranking. The Force were heading towards pushing for the Finals when he was at the club.

    Players like Haig Sare, Henjak and Ripia should be in the minuses due to be sacked for poor off field behaviour.

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  2. #32
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    that does look better - i think it is more of a clubman sort of list. where transient people are less likely to be up the top, but long time players that didn't have the best performance are still influential (Sam Wykes).

    Great job on normalising the score too!

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by palitu View Post
    that does look better - i think it is more of a clubman sort of list. where transient people are less likely to be up the top, but long time players that didn't have the best performance are still influential (Sam Wykes).

    Great job on normalising the score too!
    I didn't normalise it deliberately, that happened naturally due to the nature of the data.

    I used a column to add an arbitrary amount for WA "developed" players (I gave it to Chucky for instance, since he was picked from Pindan, despite being a queenslander.....I figured that counts) I could add the same bonus to Gits, at the moment, it appears to be weighted towards players who have a lot of caps and a long service, I can adjust that easily to make the player awards ranking count more heavily, but it won't make much difference at the top of the list and the bottom of the list might end up with players who have performed spectacularly in 1 or 2 games, but not contributed much to club culture.

    I'm a lot happier with it at the moment, and I can verify that it is, at last, totally empirical, therefore I was OK with Gits' position, as it was based upon years with the Force, player awards points and number of caps.

    I could add a function for caps per year? That would help with a bloke who has been around forever but never really cracked a spot in the team...I don't think those guys are really out of place anyway. It is already catered for in a way by having a weighting for number of caps, you'd just be double dipping the data.

    I'm not personally a fan of a naughty boy penalty, then we'll have arguments about players like Alfi Mafi, who got kicked out for being a bit of a pisshead, but Richard Brown was kept on after Quokkagate. I can't see how you'd be able to do it fairly (yes, I could do it empirically, but would that be fair)

    In any case, if those two issues are all that we're worried about, I'd say it's time to get working.

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    In any case, if those two issues are all that we're worried about, I'd say it's time to get working.
    It is impossible to get these things absolutely perfect in a way that everyone absolutely agrees on. The current list is a very good representation I feel. We can always argue about the level of contribution of certain players but it becomes very subjective. In the end, any changes from here would be minor and have an almost inperceptible effect on the final product. So I would suggest running with what you have.

    Good job!

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  5. #35
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    I can't see how you'd be able to do it fairly (yes, I could do it empirically, but would that be fair)
    I think you can when players were booted out for assault and stealing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakkies View Post
    I think you can when players were booted out for assault and stealing.
    Yeah, at that end of the scale it's pretty obvious, but what about the other end.

    Matt Henjak and Haig Sare is a great example, Henjak was famously, and rightly booted for breaking Sare's jaw, but what part did Haig play in the altercation, was he a completely innocent victim of a coward punch or was he just the one who came off second best? Do we shrink Henjak and inflate Sare as a result?

    Or the other one I mentioned earlier Alfi Mafi was apparently a bit of a pisspot and missed some training and (I think) a flight so he gets the flick, again, quite rightly, no problem with that, but Richard Brown was instrumental in Quokkagate, tarnished the club's name far more than Mafi and remained on the books.

    I don't think a blanket "you've been kicked out of the club" is reasonable, particularly in the second case, but I can't think of a way of objectively quantifying the severity of the offence (Apart from assaulting or stealing from your teammates is enough and the rest isn't) If you want me to go that way, I'd be happy to!

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    Good job GIGS20

    Always inherent issues with these lists.

    Spanner, Gits and Cam have to be higher. WA Wallabies like Dicky have to be higher. This year's guys like Nasirani, Lance, Coleman, Peni etc have to higher.

    Ripia and Sare need to be on the bottom, maybe Henjak as well but memory of his misdemeanors are dim. Brownie, a wallaby and honest toilet on the field blotted his copybook with Quokkagate. Judas was excellent for us, a turd after us. His "brand" came into the public domain in negotiations with...braindead dick!!

    Some guys were here only a while but were great and really put in like David Smith.

    So there needs to be a quotient variable as well, an X factor. No objective, subjective.

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  8. #38
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    a honest toilet I like that one

    maybe Henjak as well but memory of his misdemeanors are dim.
    Henjak was kicked off a Wallabies tour and was sacked for punching Sare in the jaw. Sare was sacked too not sure why considering he copped a broken jaw.

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by sittingbison View Post
    Good job GIGS20

    Always inherent issues with these lists.

    Spanner, Gits and Cam have to be higher. WA Wallabies like Dicky have to be higher. This year's guys like Nasirani, Lance, Coleman, Peni etc have to higher.
    I can make all of that happen. I can give all the 2017 squad the WA Bonus, along with SPanner Gits and Cam. Perhaps then a similar bonus for anyone who debuted as a wallaby while at the Force (I'd include John Welborn in that too)

    Quote Originally Posted by sittingbison View Post
    Ripia and Sare need to be on the bottom, maybe Henjak as well but memory of his misdemeanors are dim.
    Sare's biggest issue was having too much of Matt Henjak's fist in his face....I don't think that's enough to shove the scorer of the winning try in our first game against the Crusaders down the list.

    Quote Originally Posted by sittingbison View Post
    Brownie, a wallaby and honest toilet on the field blotted his copybook with Quokkagate.
    But did debut as a Wallaby while playing for us, therefore there should be some cancelling out there shouldn't there?

    Quote Originally Posted by sittingbison View Post
    Judas was excellent for us, a turd after us. His "brand" came into the public domain in negotiations with...braindead dick!!
    He was critical for us, but would you really say excellent? I thought (and it definitely wasn't his fault) that he was marked pretty solidly because he was far and away the best player on the field and the game plan was give it to Rabbit. He carried a lot and scored a lot, but he didn't really get the team a whole bunch of wins did he?......and that was probably dickie's fault too, but I'm not sure he needs a massive boost, he'd get the Wallaby Debut one if I tried that.

    Quote Originally Posted by sittingbison View Post
    Some guys were here only a while but were great and really put in like David Smith.
    Yep, and I strongly considered putting a quotient in for number of caps per year, but didn't go there in the end.

    So there needs to be a quotient variable as well, an X factor. No objective, subjective.[/QUOTE]

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  10. #40
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    to help Balance the list shouldn’t every person who earns a TWF award get a bump.

    Also those that earnt Force man, POTY rookie ect from the Force.

    Just saying.

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  11. #41
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    david te moana----1 at best

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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by brokendown gunfighter View Post
    david te moana----1 at best
    The minimum was 5 because I actually wanted to use the results as font sizes, so 5 or 6 is virtually invisible., I saw Tajhon Mailata line up for Rocko one year, and he looked like he was waiting for a cab, he got a 5, David got a 6, I think that end of the system worked.

    If Te Moana won a cap for the Force, that would explain the difference

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    Everyone also has to remember that our thoughts are tarnished by the last season or so, and then by our favourites. mine is DHP - but in terms of club influence, i think it is pretty good.

    the blokes who were there for a long time, and continually contributed to the club are more worthy than someone like Isi - he is a star, but only a recent and short lived one.

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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by palitu View Post
    Everyone also has to remember that our thoughts are tarnished by the last season or so, and then by our favourites. mine is DHP - but in terms of club influence, i think it is pretty good.

    the blokes who were there for a long time, and continually contributed to the club are more worthy than someone like Isi - he is a star, but only a recent and short lived one.
    Yep. We had a number of guys who stayed with us through thin and thinner, even though they were attracting attention from elsewhere. I don't know if anyone offered Hodgson or Cowan games elsewhere, but I know there was talk of McCalman and Cottrell being lured east, though they chose to stay.

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