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Thread: All Time Western Force Player "ranking"

  1. #16
    Champion Contributor sandgroperrugby's Avatar
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    Chucky for me should be higher. Some of those on hind sight are out but how do you go back and get good data.

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  2. #17
    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueandblack View Post
    Importance as against being any good?

    I'm just asking because James O'Connor seems a bit inflated (like his head), compared to a number of others.
    Though, when he was with us he was pretty important to the team - the team just wasn't always that good when he was here. We used to have a set of backs who basically waited for Giteau to make plays; when Giteau left Rabbit took on that role, despite still being a youngster (he only turned 21 at the end of his final season with us). It was really only after he left us that he turned into a self-important brand.

    [Although, speaking to some of the players after he left, during his final year here he had started to believe his own hype and wasn't always the perfect team-mate; but at least that attitude wasn't displaying itself on the pitch.]

    Darren's list does highlight how we're a forwards orientated team, though. Only 2 of the top 9 players are backs.

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  3. #18
    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandgroperrugby View Post
    Chucky for me should be higher. Some of those on hind sight are out but how do you go back and get good data.
    Chucky, Staniforth and Sheppard were all good, but played most of their good rugby for us in 2006 & 2007, so Darren didn't have the data.

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  4. #19
    (formerly known as Coach) Your Humble Servant Darren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    I was looking at that list and thinking it doesn't take into account the number of games played.
    It does indirectly take in the number of games played in that the number of individual POTY votes received is included. Additionally, the average rating the player got overall is included - I added a bit of weight to this average rating to give players who had short, but high impact terms with the Force a showing. The biggest thing that throws it out is the missing first 2 years of data ...

    I raised the "average rating" to the power of 4 which roughly makes ratings worth twice as much those as 1 point lower and also accounts for decimals:
    avg rating: weight
    8: 4096
    7: 2401
    6: 1296
    5: 625
    4: 256
    3: 81

    BTW, highest average rating was 7.4 shared by Pocock and Bill Meakes

    I then multiplied this weighting by the total number of votes received (which by it's nature, incorporates number of games played).

    I converted the results to be a percentage, did some rounding, and finally added 3 to everyone to bring the highest ranked up to a 10. Rankings above 3 suggest the player had some real impact at the club over it's history. Players below 3 may have had impact - but probably over a shorter time frame.

    There was a bit of tinkering before settling on this method. Happy to run some other algorithm - basic details are number of votes and average vote value.


    Missing capped players from the list are:
    Anare Koliavu
    Angus Scott
    Brendan Cannon
    Brock James
    David Fitter
    David Te Moana
    Gavin DeBartolo
    James Hilgendorf
    John Welborn
    Jon McGrath
    Josh Graham
    Luke Doherty
    Rudi Vedelago
    Tajhon Mailata
    Tim Davidson

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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darren View Post
    It does indirectly take in the number of games played in that the number of individual POTY votes received is included. Additionally, the average rating the player got overall is included - I added a bit of weight to this average rating to give players who had short, but high impact terms with the Force a showing. The biggest thing that throws it out is the missing first 2 years of data ...

    I raised the "average rating" to the power of 4 which roughly makes ratings worth twice as much those as 1 point lower and also accounts for decimals:
    avg rating: weight
    8: 4096
    7: 2401
    6: 1296
    5: 625
    4: 256
    3: 81

    BTW, highest average rating was 7.4 shared by Pocock and Bill Meakes

    I then multiplied this weighting by the total number of votes received (which by it's nature, incorporates number of games played).

    I converted the results to be a percentage, did some rounding, and finally added 3 to everyone to bring the highest ranked up to a 10. Rankings above 3 suggest the player had some real impact at the club over it's history. Players below 3 may have had impact - but probably over a shorter time frame.

    There was a bit of tinkering before settling on this method. Happy to run some other algorithm - basic details are number of votes and average vote value.


    Missing capped players from the list are:
    Anare Koliavu
    Angus Scott
    Brendan Cannon
    Brock James
    David Fitter
    David Te Moana
    Gavin DeBartolo
    James Hilgendorf
    John Welborn
    Jon McGrath
    Josh Graham
    Luke Doherty
    Rudi Vedelago
    Tajhon Mailata
    Tim Davidson
    Was this done on a massive spreadsheet or a big score card? Because I know someone who can help!

    😆😆😆😆😆😆

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  6. #21
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    Wonderful shirt design a real winner
    .my eyes are shite but I can’t see Ruru there .i reckon when our next version of this shirt is released in a few yearstime, ,he will be worth about a 9

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  7. #22
    Veteran Ecky's Avatar
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    Shep & Spanner would be very high in my "all time" list

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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
    Shep & Spanner would be very high in my "all time" list
    Have to agree with that. True Force legends.

    Any T-shirt should have those two in size 72 font

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  9. #24
    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
    Shep & Spanner would be very high in my "all time" list
    Quote Originally Posted by SPaRTAN View Post
    Have to agree with that. True Force legends.

    Any T-shirt should have those two in size 72 font
    To be fair to Gigs, he does have both of them on his design (Sheps in the tower on the left and Spanner under Hodgson in the middle).

    We could argue all year over who gets which billing, positioning, and whether Sam Wykes's 8 years with the club should give him a bigger font than Jono Lance's 2 years, but with more impact. What's important is that they're on there as Force men. I'd buy a top with all those names on, just to remind myself of all the joy (and some frustration!) they brought me over the years.

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  10. #25
    (formerly known as Coach) Your Humble Servant Darren's Avatar
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    thatisall

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  11. #26
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheikh View Post
    To be fair to Gigs,.
    Wow, I'm surprised with how unusual that feels I do need to point out that absolutely no science was used in generating that version. The main indicator of name size was how well I recognised the name. I'm sure there are some names missing, some names too big and others too small. But, as can be seen from this thread, if you ask 10 force fans about this, you'll end up with 11 opinions. When I get another lazy couple of hours, I'll use Darren's algorithm and see if it ends up any more popular.

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  12. #27
    Senior Player andrewM's Avatar
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    So the question is, can you get some printed by the 10th and where do I send my money?

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  13. #28
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewM View Post
    So the question is, can you get some printed by the 10th and where do I send my money?
    My supplier won't turn them around that fast, 6 weeks is the usual run.

    I have absolutely no problems with releasing the IP to the public domain so that somebody else might be able to do it.

    If you're prepared to wait for them, I'm happy to arrange it and collect the funds.

    Darren, can you pm or email me that list without rounding applied please? I'm planning to go from about 0 to maybe 72, or a little bit bigger and I'd like a little more discrimination in the list.

    Anybody who is asking about printing it onto shirts, it's already in vector format, I can supply it in whatever file extension they want and the font is embeddable.

    Any other questions, PM me.

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    I dont know how it would impact the results - but i think that there should be more emphasis on number of games too.

    If we are looking at impact on the force, then the longevity of the career should be a leading indicator.

    Perhaps try and normalise the different criteria against each other, then set multipliers from there. DHP is really quite low in the list, but played a number of years, and was a fairly good performer in his second stint

    i would also look at normalising the scores across a 0-10 range, instead of just adding 3 to the list.

    don't break it into 0.5 chunks - keep it to one decimel place.

    otherwise - great concept!

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  15. #30
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    OK, I've had a bit of a play with the numbers, adding an extra little bit for number of caps, length of service and a WA origin "bonus" How does this list look? I would be thinking that the numbers can relate directly to font size.

    Player Surname Final Rating
    Matt Hodgson 100%
    Pek Cowan 81%
    Nathan Sharpe 70%
    Ben McCalman 65%
    Richard Brown 63%
    David Pocock 62%
    Nick Cummins 60%
    Nathan Charles 54%
    Sam Wykes 52%
    Kieran Longbottom 50%
    Dane Haylett-Petty 48%
    Kyle Godwin 44%
    Cameron Shepherd 41%
    Tetera Faulkner 40%
    James O'Connor 38%
    Brendan Cannon 35%
    Angus Cottrell 37%
    Heath Tessman 36%
    Alby Mathewson 33%
    Ryan Cross 32%
    Brett Sheehan 32%
    James Stannard 33%
    Scott Staniforth 32%
    John Welborn 29%
    Brynard Stander 35%
    Adam Coleman 29%
    Matt Giteau 28%
    Tai McIsaac 29%
    Alfie Mafi 27%
    Ollie Hoskins 27%
    Ian Prior 27%
    Tom Hockings 27%
    Ross Haylett-Petty 27%
    Luke Burton 27%
    Chris O'Young 27%
    Sias Ebersohn 26%
    Marcel Brache 26%
    Ryan Louwrens 25%
    Zac Holmes 25%
    Patrick Dellit 25%
    Drew Mitchell 24%
    Luke Morahan 24%
    Justin Turner 26%
    Ben Whittaker 24%
    Richard Hardwick 23%
    Chris Alcock 23%
    Junior Rasolea 23%
    Kane Koteka 22%
    Jermaine Ainsley 21%
    Curtis Rona 19%
    Michael Ruru 19%
    Toby Lynn 19%
    Josh Graham 18%
    Scott Fava 19%
    Anaru Rangi 19%
    Haig Sare 18%
    Tim Fairbrother 18%
    AJ Whalley 18%
    Angus Scott 19%
    James Verity-Amm 17%
    Jayden Hayward 17%
    Harry Scoble 17%
    Chance Peni 17%
    Rory Sidey 17%
    Ryan Tyrrell 17%
    James Hilgendorf 17%
    Shambeckler Vui 16%
    Elvis Taione 16%
    Gareth Hardy 17%
    Wilhelm Steenkamp 16%
    Joelin Rapana 17%
    Onehunga Havili 15%
    Luke Holmes 17%
    Steve Mafi 15%
    Mitch Inman 15%
    Albert Nikoro 15%
    Troy Takiari 16%
    Rudi Vedelago 14%
    Matt Dunning 15%
    Tamaiti Horua 15%
    Ammon Matuauto 14%
    Anare Koliavu 14%
    Salesi Ma'afu 14%
    Francois van Wyk 15%
    Junior Pelesasa 14%
    David Pusey 14%
    David Smith 13%
    Winston Stanley 13%
    Chris Heiberg 13%
    Matt Henjak 14%
    Luke Doherty 12%
    Peter Grant 12%
    Jono Lance 12%
    Josh Valentine 12%
    Digby Ioane 12%
    Josh Tatupu 12%
    Hugh McMeniman 12%
    Rory Walton 13%
    Ben Castle 11%
    Semisi Masirewa 11%
    Phoenix Battye 12%
    Isireli Naisarani 10%
    David Hill 10%
    Will Tupou 11%
    Bill Meakes 10%
    Mark Bartholomeusz 11%
    Richard Stanford 10%
    Tatafu Polota-Nau 10%
    Matt Philip 10%
    Scott Daruda 10%
    Ben Seymour 9%
    Guy Millar 10%
    Salesi Manu 10%
    Alex Newsome 9%
    Gene Fairbanks 10%
    Chris Tuatara-Morrison 9%
    Pat O'Connor 11%
    Napolioni Nalaga 9%
    Lachlan MacKay 10%
    David Harvey 9%
    Samu Wara 8%
    Ben Tapuai 8%
    Nic Henderson 8%
    Josh Holmes 8%
    David Fitter 8%
    Sam Harris 8%
    Lachlan McCaffrey 8%
    Willie Ripia 7%
    Mark Swanepoel 8%
    Ben Daley 7%
    Brock James 7%
    Sam Norton-Knight 7%
    Jono Jenkins 7%
    Ritchie Arnold 7%
    Lewis Carmichael 7%
    Tevita Metuisela 7%
    Ed Stubbs 7%
    David Te Moana 6%
    Ben Jacobs 6%
    Sam Christie 6%
    Mitchell Scott 6%
    Tim Davidson 6%
    Mick Snowden 6%
    Gavin DeBartolo 5%
    Dillyn Leyds 5%
    Mitch Short 5%
    Sitaleki Timani 5%
    Robbie Coleman 5%
    Luke Jones 5%
    James Hilterbrand 5%
    Oliver Atkins 5%
    Ruan Smith 5%
    Jon McGrath 5%
    Ted Postal 5%
    Stefano Hunt 4%
    Ryan Hodson 4%
    Matt Brandon 4%
    Brian Sefanaia 4%
    Tajhon Mailata 4%

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