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Thread: The future of WA rugby

  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison View Post
    Clyne is the one with all the power, not Castle.
    It seems like Castle is a stronger person than Clyne, I'm hoping she could be what we need...

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  2. #482
    Veteran SNOB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fulvio sammut View Post
    You need ARU/RA permission to play a local grass roots club fixture overseas, let alone play in a rugby tournament or competition, SNOB.
    Thanks. I was hoping!

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    May the FORCE be with you!

  3. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by fulvio sammut View Post
    You need ARU/RA permission to play a local grass roots club fixture overseas, let alone play in a rugby tournament or competition, SNOB.
    I think we have had this discussion before, but or what? They might be able to kick up a fuss if you wanted to do it while continuing to be part of their organisation at the same time (i.e. you couldn't be part of their gang if you didn't follow their arbitrary rules, and perhaps arguable even then), but if you had no intention of having anything further to do with them what could they actually do? You have previously mentioned injunctions, so; on what grounds would they petition the court to take legal action preventing you from engaging in a lawful activity in a foreign country (or even within Australia)? What legal protections have been awarded to RA to give them that power, which for a national body presumably means federal legislation?

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  4. #484
    Veteran Ecky's Avatar
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    I expect that one of the 'or whats' would be there being no injury insurance in place for the Strayan participants who would otherwise be covered under the national plan. That's a biggie, I reckon.

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  5. #485
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    The RA also hold the players registrations.

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    'I may be a Senator but I am not stupid'


    https://omny.fm/shows/the-alan-jones-breakfast-show/cameron-clyne

    Link to Senate Report http://www.aph.gov.au/senate_ca

    https://www.change.org/p/rugby-australia-petition-for-cameron-clyne-to-resign-as-chairman-of-the-rugby-australia-board

  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post
    I think we have had this discussion before, but or what? They might be able to kick up a fuss if you wanted to do it while continuing to be part of their organisation at the same time (i.e. you couldn't be part of their gang if you didn't follow their arbitrary rules, and perhaps arguable even then), but if you had no intention of having anything further to do with them what could they actually do? You have previously mentioned injunctions, so; on what grounds would they petition the court to take legal action preventing you from engaging in a lawful activity in a foreign country (or even within Australia)? What legal protections have been awarded to RA to give them that power, which for a national body presumably means federal legislation?
    On these legal questions, I'll give a Bush Lawyer's free consultation ('bush' lawyers are the best kind of lawyers, btw). If Fulvio is a fancy lawyer he can give his opinion doled out in six minute intervals.

    I think there's not much legislative impediment to WA severing ties and doing their own thing. Even injury insurance could be solved - obviously you couldn't use the existing Rugby Australia cover, but would have to negotiate it all anew.

    BUT, the problem is ... who would you play?

    You might be able to set up a local comp in Perth but going further than that gets harder. The Asian nations are not going to just up and leave World Rugby.

    Creating a significant Rebel organisation would be a very expensive option; much more so than a sanctioned IPRC.

    Think of Rupert's breakaway "Super League" back in the 90s which had to have a footprint in several countries. It cost a motza. And didn't last long as a consequence. The only aim of it was to bring opponents to the negotiating table and then secure the broadcasting rights to Rugby League. Once that was done, it wasn't needed.

    I doubt there's Pay TV prize of that magnitude on offer for rugby union in this region for 2018.

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  7. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiap View Post
    You might be able to set up a local comp in Perth but going further than that gets harder. The Asian nations are not going to just up and leave World Rugby.

    Creating a significant Rebel organisation would be a very expensive option; much more so than a sanctioned IPRC.
    Yes, that is where I have got to. I don't see that you necessarily need to create a whole organisation...a local comp and the IPRC is effectively the whole structure, just as rugby in WA was largely encompassed by the Pindan and SR. But you are right; assuming we were to flip the bird to RA, it may well require the other countries to do something similar to WR.

    So the question is, why is that so unlikely? The Pacific Islands, Asian countries, etc - what do they actually get out of being part of WR? They have a few matches against other teams just like them during the qualifying rounds of a tournament they are never going to attend, but what else? I would have said it was a no brainer choosing between that and establishing a full development structure through to a professional team, which is/was what Twiggy was talking about. Do that, and one day when you return to the fold you might actually be good enough to play in a World Cup, something that'll never happen continuing as they are. So exactly why would they necessarily decide being a powerless nobody in a big organisation designed for the benefit of others is such a desirable state of affairs?

    Not a good look for WR though, so I wouldn't be surprised if, were their bluff called and the comp put in place regardless, they didn't just quietly recognise it. It would be all upside for them, so I doubt they feel as strongly about it as RA. They could shrug, say they tried, but that they have to accept the new normal and suggest RA might need to mend some fences. Especially if it meant alienating a bunch of countries in a region they are about to hold a World Cup, and particularly China with all its potential eyes. Most likely effect is that it would probably rule out Japanese participation, at least until the outcomes settled.

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  8. #488
    Legend Contributor fulvio sammut's Avatar
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    Andy, RA own the game, just like you own your car. If I drive off in your car without your permission, the law will get involved.

    If RA are bloody minded enough, they can put pressure on the Union of the country your club/provincial/representative team is playing in, and have the game called off by them.

    I was involved in an incident of this nature in the early 80's.

    Palmyra in Thailand. guests of Bangkok Sport s club. Western Suburbs from Sydney also there. Namibian representative team present on way home from non IRB sanctioned game in Taiwan. Apartheid era. Tournament arranged at short notice with Wests, Pally, Namibia and Bangkok selection.

    As Paly manager I get knock on hotel room door from two suits from Australian Embassy. "Your country does not wish for you to play against Namibian team."

    I say We are not in "my country", and my team mostly Kiwi's anyway, but I will advise players of their information.It will be their decision.

    Players (and I) meet, and give the bird.

    Next day Thailand Rugby Union politely gives Paly, Wests, Namibia and Bangkok selection the bird. Will not sanction any game.

    Not an Apartheid/racial issue for any of the teams involved. Paly had many Maori players, Wests Maoris and Islanders, Bangkok expats and locals of various races, all wanting to enjoy a rugby weekend.

    Political pressure on Thai RU and ARU by their governments, and games cancelled. Simple as that.

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  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiap View Post
    I doubt there's Pay TV prize of that magnitude on offer for rugby union in this region for 2018.
    I'd agree given that Super Rugby games are being outrated by Under 20's Rugby League on Fox Sports!

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  10. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post
    So the question is, why is that so unlikely? The Pacific Islands, Asian countries, etc - what do they actually get out of being part of WR? They have a few matches against other teams just like them during the qualifying rounds of a tournament they are never going to attend, but what else? I would have said it was a no brainer choosing between that and establishing a full development structure through to a professional team, which is/was what Twiggy was talking about. Do that, and one day when you return to the fold you might actually be good enough to play in a World Cup, something that'll never happen continuing as they are. So exactly why would they necessarily decide being a powerless nobody in a big organisation designed for the benefit of others is such a desirable state of affairs?
    Various nations have potential reasons... Japan is unlikely anyway but they obviously have the World Cup, Super Rugby and the Top League to worry about. China has a long term goal of hosting a World Cup now they have Jack Ma's money behind them. Hong Kong makes an 8 figure amount every year from the Sevens so they won't want to lose that. I don't know how much money Singapore makes off their Sevens tournament but maybe an issue. Fiji has the Olympics carrot now. At club level these countries host a number of long-running invitational tournaments featuring overseas team which obviously wouldn't happen anymore.

    Individual players on the other hand might be interested.

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  11. #491
    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    Saw on Twitter yesterday that China have bought the TV rights to the Aviva Premiership....which they will show on FTA TV. That is HUGE.

    You are so, so inept RA. And SANZAAR too for that matter.

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  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison View Post
    Saw on Twitter yesterday that China have bought the TV rights to the Aviva Premiership....which they will show on FTA TV. That is HUGE.
    You are so, so inept RA. And SANZAAR too for that matter.
    https://www.premiershiprugby.com/201...oadcast-china/

    You have got to hope against hope that ARU/RA are not as inert and as moronic as they make out, and that somewhere in the ARU/RA fiefdom, someone is engaging with China and the rest of Asia Rugby (and not just leaving it to Minderoo).

    (And as for what the growth in broadcasting of Premiership Rugby might mean for Super Rugby post 2020, ...)

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    Last edited by FingerTips; 22-12-17 at 09:06.

  13. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by fulvio sammut View Post
    Andy, RA own the game, just like you own your car. If I drive off in your car without your permission, the law will get involved.

    If RA are bloody minded enough, they can put pressure on the Union of the country your club/provincial/representative team is playing in, and have the game called off by them.

    I was involved in an incident of this nature in the early 80's.

    Palmyra in Thailand. guests of Bangkok Sport s club. Western Suburbs from Sydney also there. Namibian representative team present on way home from non IRB sanctioned game in Taiwan. Apartheid era. Tournament arranged at short notice with Wests, Pally, Namibia and Bangkok selection.

    As Paly manager I get knock on hotel room door from two suits from Australian Embassy. "Your country does not wish for you to play against Namibian team."

    I say We are not in "my country", and my team mostly Kiwi's anyway, but I will advise players of their information.It will be their decision.

    Players (and I) meet, and give the bird.

    Next day Thailand Rugby Union politely gives Paly, Wests, Namibia and Bangkok selection the bird. Will not sanction any game.

    Not an Apartheid/racial issue for any of the teams involved. Paly had many Maori players, Wests Maoris and Islanders, Bangkok expats and locals of various races, all wanting to enjoy a rugby weekend.

    Political pressure on Thai RU and ARU by their governments, and games cancelled. Simple as that.
    The 1980s anti-apartheid sporting and trade boycotts had UN and many official government policies behind them.

    I think RA are on much shakier ground now and are unlikely to get to Australian embassy heavies to come and knock on your door now to stop a rugby game.
    Those embassy heavies now report to Julie Bishop, Foreign Minister, who Twiggy used in his IPRC promotions video. Given the Senate Inquiry and possible ASIC investigations, I think RA dont have much pull in the government at the moment.
    It will interesting to see what happens in January. Twiggy has a lot of clout in political circles and does not give up easily,

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  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewM View Post
    Brilliant idea Hansie! If I win Lotto I'll shout you all
    Do you mind giving my share directly to the Future Force or a local rugby club. I wouldn't want my name attached to a single cent that goes towards Melbourne Rebels.

    before anybody talks about supporting the WA boys who are now in the team, I would suggest the my method would support ALL of WA rugby, not the 10 or so players who have been forced to sign. It's not exactly selling out, because they had no choice, but I don't need to support it either.

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    C'mon the

  15. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by The InnFORCEr View Post
    Has Tom Fearn be advised of this coaching vacancy??
    My god! That's the resurrection of an old argument if ever I saw one!

    You'd better explain one that to the newer members of the site.

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    C'mon the

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