Dave Wessels

[Ecky]

Anyone know anyone in the SAS or MI6??!!

Unable to confirm or deny whether or not I know anyone in either of those organisations, sorry.

[brokendown gunfighter]

I thought the referees association fell into the same category?

[Bakkies]

Bill Pulver at the senate enquiry made a big statement that the ARU are totally debt free.

That lie was priceless.

[GIGS20]

That lie was priceless.

I dunno, that one might not be a lie. They got a 285 million dollar cash injection 2 years ago. I'd expect them not to carry a great deal of debt. It does make it hard to understand the insolvency argument though

[Bakkies]

I dunno, that one might not be a lie. They got a 285 million dollar cash injection 2 years ago. I'd expect them not to carry a great deal of debt. It does make it hard to understand the insolvency argument though

Even if Pulver can't distinguish the two you can't be debt free and facing insolvency at the same time.

[Alison]

The ARU finished 2016 with total equity of $4.5m despite a broadcast income of $60m and Wallaby ticket sales of around $30m (from memory). The organisation may be debt free but it sure as hell ain't rolling in it. If they reckon losing us will give them an extra $6m a year, they still aren't that well off. Especially if they end up having to give the Reds an advance and the Rebels extra dough to sign our Wallabies and potential Wallabies.....

Any financial issues the ARU has are all down to their decision to award the 5th SR licence when they did. That has been the root cause of everyone's problems in my opinion. And that, to my mind, is all down to reckless governance on the part of the ARU.

[GIGS20]

Even if Pulver can't distinguish the two you can't be debt free and facing insolvency at the same time.

Umm, you might be far more qualified that I at financial stuff (let's face it, that wouldn't be hard) but I can see how that might happen "Yes we are debt free, but our costs are exceeding our revenue and that will continue in the long term the Short term injection of borrowing won't solve the problem and we'll be worse off, having to pay interest"

Any financial issues the ARU has are all down to their decision to award the 5th SR licence when they did. That has been the root cause of everyone's problems in my opinion. And that, to my mind, is all down to reckless governance on the part of the ARU.

I'm not so convinced that is the problem Al, look at the numbers.

They quote $28 Million in unbudgeted expenditure, I assume (since It's Willy and Clone) that number is stretched to it's theoretical limit. however that number must be put into perspective, Firstly, that number apparently covers 2013-2017 so we're talking about $7 Million a year. in the context of a budget that was running at approximately $25 Million per year (the old broadcast agreement) that is significant (about 28%) fast forward to the new broadcast deal, the unbudgeted funds represent about 13 percent of the budget for ROUGHLY THE SAME COSTS. Sure we can point to the extra travel required, but we've already had that discussion, and I think 1 Million in extra travel would be generous (especially since my costing of flights was done on a retail ticket) but, let's go with the ARU's complete bullshit number of $8 Million. That means, if they hadn't covered a single cent of the 28 Million unbudgeted costs and added the 8 Million dollars travel (which won't change a whole lot, because they still travel to Japan, Argentina and South Africa, but no stopovers in Perth) and we have a total figure of $36 Million extremely generous and fictional dollars. Since their new budget has increased by $30 Million a year, they could pretty much clear the debt in the first year with savings or spread it over the entire agreement, making it $5.6 Million per year.

point 1, THe ARU signed up for the 28 Million voluntarily, they simply ave that money to the franchises and seem to have ended 2016 in the black.....why are they whingeing?
point 2, if a financial dunce like me can convert the worst case scenario of this into 5.6 million a year out of a 30 million increase, what the hell have they done with the other 24.4 million dollars a year? If they find the answer to that question, they could field 2 more super rugby teams and STILL afford to throw money at the Rebels to watch them fail!

[Bakkies]

Umm, you might be far more qualified that I at financial stuff (let's face it, that wouldn't be hard) but I can see how that might happen "Yes we are debt free, but our costs are exceeding our revenue and that will continue in the long term the Short term injection of borrowing won't solve the problem and we'll be worse off, having to pay interest"

Insolvency is when you are unable to pay your debts back in relation to cash flow or balance sheet to avoid bankruptcy. You can't state that you are facing insolvency when you are debt free. I don't think Australian organisations have the same issues as what occurs in the UK when the tax man can wind up a business if they haven't paid their National Insurance Contributions. Corporation tax is a different story though.

Hansie may be able to correct me if I am wrong. SANZAAR are supposed to cover the travelling costs of the teams. If that is correct than the ARU can't play that card.

While we are on travel this is also the same organisation that called up Kurtley Beale to the AIs touring squad mid tour when there was no injuries (two backs in that squad didn't get a game) and has taken the likes of Tongan Thor and Korobiete when they clearly weren't going to play.

Under the previous deal as Argentina were introduced into the then Tri Nations during the tv deal and weren't a part of Sanzar the IRB stepped in to finance their travelling expenses.

[GIGS20]

Insolvency is when you are unable to pay your debts back in relation to cash flow or balance sheet to avoid bankruptcy.

Checkmate in the fist sentence, I told you I was no financial genius. What's scary is that willy is ceo of a multimillion dollar enterprise which is, for the most part, presided over by bankers. You'd expect him to be better at that stuff than me. I now understand your point, sorry for the diversion

[Bakkies]

Checkmate in the fist sentence, I told you I was no financial genius. What's scary is that willy is ceo of a multimillion dollar enterprise which is, for the most part, presided over by bankers. You'd expect him to be better at that stuff than me. I now understand your point, sorry for the diversion

That's no problem and no need to be sorry. I am no financial genius either. When Sen. Reynolds questioned Pulver he didn't know the finances and de Clyne was the same when he copped a grilling from Alan Jones.

[Alison]

I think Rob Clarke was pulling all the strings.

[Bakkies]

I think Rob Clarke was pulling all the strings.

So what was Todd Day the so called CFO doing?

[Alison]

Whatever Rob Clarke told him to do?

[FingerTips]

All through my life and a few fellow board members we have partnered with fellow Rugby men on a hand shake and up until this time, never been shafted.

Hansie et al.
I think that many on this forum subscribe to a set of values in rugby on and off the field which includes honesty, fair play and respect, and where a hand shake is a person's bond.

Quoting from World Rugby:
In 2009 the World Rugby member unions identified integrity, passion, solidarity, discipline and respect as the defining character-building characteristics of rugby. These are now collectively known as the World Rugby values and are incorporated within the World Rugby Playing Charter, a guiding document aimed at preserving rugby’s unique character and ethos both on and off the field of play.

The core values enable participants immediately to understand the character of the games and what makes it distinctive as a sport which is played by people of all shapes and sizes.

INTEGRITY
Integrity is central to the fabric of the game and is generated through honesty and fair play.

PASSION
Rugby people have a passionate enthusiasm for the game. Rugby generates excitement, emotional attachment and a sense of belonging to the global rugby family.

SOLIDARITY
Rugby provides a unifying spirit that leads to life-long friendships, camaraderie, teamwork and loyalty which transcends cultural, geographic, political and religious differences.

DISCIPLINE
Discipline is an integral part of the game both on and off the field and is reflected through adherence to the laws, the regulations and rugby’s core values.

RESPECT
Respect for team-mates, opponents, match officials and those involved in the game is paramount."

Quoting from the ARU:
Australian Rugby Union has five core values, which align to World Rugby's playing charter, and underpin the 'Fair Play' behaviours expected of players, match officials and fans; i.e. INTEGRITY, PASSION, SOLIDARITY, DISCIPLINE and RESPECT."

So how does the ARU's treatment of the WA Rugby Community measure against these core values, especially when the objective is "preserving rugby’s unique character and ethos both on and off the field of play."

INTEGRITY
How honest has the ARU been with RugbyWA over the past couple of years?
How honest has the ARU been with the WA Government and with the taxpayers of WA over the past few years, in respect of the considerable sums of money spent by those taxpayers on Professional Rugby in WA??
How fair is it to penalise one part of the Australian Rugby Community to the point of destruction, while for the rest of the community it is business as usual?
How fair is it that one and only one part of the Australian Rugby Community should wear all the pain and costs of the "corrective measures" which the ARU has seen fit to apply to Super Rugby in Australia?
How fair is it that the ARU has not provided any form of compensation or a quid pro quo to the WA Rugby Community for the loss of Professional Rugby in WA?

PASSION
How important is passion to the ARU when the emotional attachment and a sense of belonging is deliberately destroyed by the ARU's removal of the reason for that passion?
How important can passion be to the ARU when a visible focus of passion like the Sea of Blue has no reason to exist any more, because of the actions of the ARU?

SOLIDARITY
How can there be a unifying spirit when one part of the Australian Rugby Community has been pretty much destroyed and that destruction has been explicitly recognised by the ARU (in the ARU's own words "We [the ARU] sincerely hope that they [the WA Rugby Community] are not lost to the game forever.")?
How can there be unity when the ARU has divided the Australian Rugby Community into two classes, those who continue to have a Super Rugby team (the winners) and that which no longer has a Super Rugby team (the loser)?
How can there be solidarity when the ARU has played one provincial union off against another to achieve its end purpose?

DISCIPLINE
In its treatment of the WA Rugby Community, how has the ARU adhered to Rugby's Core values?

RESPECT
How is the treatment of the WA Rugby Community by the ARU in any way respectful?
How is the discontinuation of the Western Force by the ARU a respectful action towards the WA Rugby Community?
Can anyone regard the duding of the WA Government and the WA taxpayer by the ARU as a respectful action?
How much respect has been shown to the WA Rugby Community by Clyne's smug triumphalism, Pulver's indifferent arrogance and the glee with which the supporters and officials of the four remaining Super Rugby teams have greeted the demise of the Western Force and the pain being suffered by the supporters of the Western Force?

[sandgroperrugby]

Totally agree ie Respect I am a foundation member of the Force along with a lot of other members of this forum. The Force was owned by the ARU, they have not once sent me an email apologising or seeking me to stick with rugby or any other platitude. That’s what makes me scoff at the fact that the ARU want to keep WA strong from a rugby point of view. They have a list of die hard rugby fans that they have ignored and not conversed with apart from send me a request to spend more money on the eastern states rugby scene. Makes me very angry.