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Thread: Dave Wessels

  1. #46
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    Hansie,
    Hindsight is wonderful for critics.
    I have never met you, but heard you on the Allan Jones shows and read your posts on TWF. You obviously care deeply about rugby in WA and I applaud you.

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  2. #47
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    Thanks JSJ, as Theodore Roosevelt once said:

    "It is not the critic who counts: not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the Arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again, because there is no effort without error or shortcoming, but who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, who spends himself for a worth cause; who at the best, knows, in the end, the triumph of high achievement, and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat"

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  3. #48
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    Hansie, in my opinion there is no lesser man than one who sits on the sidelines and criticises those who are in the thick of the battle.

    I thank you and all those involved in the fight to save our (and your) beloved Force.

    We've lost the battle but the war aint over yet.

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  4. #49
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    Fair reply Hansie but the question still had to be asked about how a term in the agreement was left so open ended. Damn hard lesson to learn! As long as we don't make the same mistake again.

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  5. #50
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    The future of the Force should never have even come down to some words in an 'agreement'. To have been turfed out in such a manner with so little respect over 1 sentence is unforgivable by the ARU. These individuals have shown what a low level world the inhabit, IMO CLYNE, CLARKE, PULVER & EALES do not deserve to be associated with ANY normal society in any business whatsoever. They have only shown the grubs they are completely lacking in integrity. All it was ever about was proving a point & getting their own way regardless of the good of Aussie rugby culture. May they live in hell for this! scumbags!

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  6. #51
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    As stated prior, they were out to get us by hook or by...as it turns out... crook. They needed to remove TWO saffer teams plus us, and renegotiate a tv deal that had only just been signed and had FOUR seasons to run, to be crooks

    Make no mistake, they would have hooked us if that didn't work. You all heard Willy Puller, if Rebels fell over tomoz...not unlikely...they STILL would not let us back in. And let's not forget the draft NRC program omitting the Spirit.

    We were fucked no matter what.

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    The long sobs of autumn's violins wound my heart with a monotonous languor

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by sittingbison View Post
    As stated prior, they were out to get us by hook or by...as it turns out... crook. They needed to remove TWO saffer teams plus us, and renegotiate a tv deal that had only just been signed and had FOUR seasons to run, to be crooks

    Make no mistake, they would have hooked us if that didn't work. You all heard Willy Puller, if Rebels fell over tomoz...not unlikely...they STILL would not let us back in. And let's not forget the draft NRC program omitting the Spirit.

    We were fucked no matter what.
    Hopefully we can say fark you we don't need you.

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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiraag View Post
    Term means the period commencing on the Commencement Date and ending on the expiry date of the last of the SANZAR Broadcast Agreements (being 31 December 2020) or, subject to clause 2.4, if the last of the SANZAR Broadcast Agreements is terminated or renegotiated earlier as a result of the renegotiation of the commercial terms of a broadcast arrangement, such earlier date.
    The way the original alliance agreement was worded gave the ARU an out and they took it. Can someone point out in any of my posts anywhere where I have sat on the sideline and bagged all the hard work that has gone in over the last 4 or 5 months.

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    Wests Scarborough 1st Grade juggernaut has played finals rugby each and every year since its inception and continues this remarkable feat yet again this season and unbelievably it's still rolling on and as an added little circle jerk for the masses Wests actually hold the record for the current longest unbroken finals record.

  9. #54
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    At the end of the day this is how it we interpreted it.
    1. The broadcast agreement term was always to 2020 and we had written confirmation from the broadcasters it was not about to change.
    2. The $$$ paid to the ARU was exactly the same for 5 teams as for 4.
    3. All that changed was 15 games fewer.

    term stayed the same, money stayed the same, content ( Rugby Union) stayed the same, all broadcasters around the world stayed the same, duration of each game being broadcast stayed the same. So there was no material change in the eyes of our learned colleagues.

    It is just that both the Arbitrator and Judge saw it differently.

    Bear in mind when we began discussions around the Alliance agreement in March 2016 there was no hint of SANZAAR reducing from 18 to 15. As far as we were concerned a change in broadcasting term in March 2016 would affect every single super rugby team, so we were in the same boat as everyone else. By the time ARU agreed to cut a team, our Alliance agreement was signed, we then worked darn hard to invoke another clause in the Alliance agreement and that was to buy the licence back and so Own The Force was born. The ARU torpedoed that on April 10th, so we then tried to tap into other streams but from then on the ARU rejected all buy back proposals, so we had to fight.

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  10. #55
    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    Hansie, in the documentation the ARU put out on 5 September, just after the appeal decision, they said SANZAR had been assessing things for NINE MONTHS before they made the decision in March this year to go from 18 to 15. That takes us back to at least June 2016.

    On the back of that info, I find it impossible to believe that the ARU did not know there was at least a possibility that they would be asked to drop a team from 2018 when they were discussing funding options with you guys. And that leads me to the view that they were not negotiating with you in good faith and were more intent on finding a way to have an easy option to get rid of us should SANZAAR make the decision they eventually made in March this year.

    As others have said, the men from the east who came bearing what we thought were gifts, actually came with a Trojan horse. And that is what we need to expose for the rest of the world to see.

    I mean, has anyone heard any further mention of the centralised model they pitched to WA? Were the Reds told that just recently when they asked for an advance on their 2018 distribution? That would be the litmus test for me. And what about the Rebels? Why no move to the centralised model for them when Cox said he wanted out?

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  11. #56
    Legend Contributor blueandblack's Avatar
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    I doubt anyone would trust them now.

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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison View Post
    Hansie, in the documentation the ARU put out on 5 September, just after the appeal decision, they said SANZAR had been assessing things for NINE MONTHS before they made the decision in March this year to go from 18 to 15. That takes us back to at least June 2016.

    On the back of that info, I find it impossible to believe that the ARU did not know there was at least a possibility that they would be asked to drop a team from 2018 when they were discussing funding options with you guys. And that leads me to the view that they were not negotiating with you in good faith and were more intent on finding a way to have an easy option to get rid of us should SANZAAR make the decision they eventually made in March this year.

    As others have said, the men from the east who came bearing what we thought were gifts, actually came with a Trojan horse. And that is what we need to expose for the rest of the world to see.

    I mean, has anyone heard any further mention of the centralised model they pitched to WA? Were the Reds told that just recently when they asked for an advance on their 2018 distribution? That would be the litmus test for me. And what about the Rebels? Why no move to the centralised model for them when Cox said he wanted out?
    Ali, At the time in March 2016, we did not even consider the risk of SANZAAR reducing the number of teams. Super 18 had only had 1 year in existence, back then who, on our side would even have thought to ask such a question?

    Personally, I agree with your allegation that some moves were afoot, and we are still desperately searching for that "smoking gun". If we can get our hands on an e-mail or letter implicating the ARU in considering or even discussing dropping a team prior to March 2016, we have the evidence necessary to go for the jugular.

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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansie View Post
    ... we are still desperately searching for that "smoking gun". If we can get our hands on an e-mail or letter implicating the ARU....
    Hmmmm
    Name:  latest.png
Views: 377
Size:  152.1 KB

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    The long sobs of autumn's violins wound my heart with a monotonous languor

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by sittingbison View Post
    Hmmmm
    Name:  latest.png
Views: 377
Size:  152.1 KB
    Not very effective on email

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    C'mon the

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hansie View Post
    Ali, At the time in March 2016, we did not even consider the risk of SANZAAR reducing the number of teams. Super 18 had only had 1 year in existence, back then who, on our side would even have thought to ask such a question?

    Personally, I agree with your allegation that some moves were afoot, and we are still desperately searching for that "smoking gun". If we can get our hands on an e-mail or letter implicating the ARU in considering or even discussing dropping a team prior to March 2016, we have the evidence necessary to go for the jugular.
    Hansie / Alison March 2016 and we were only 2 months into the new TV /Media deal on the field.. .. If they discussions that early well they are really DUMB.. Setting this up and then before a game is played discussing dumping it.. .. I really hope you can find somthing concrete as that would sink SANZAR world wide ..

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