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Thread: Dave Wessels

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    On the contrary, if the IPRC is actually going to happen, I would expect to see the equivalent of the Future Force significantly upgraded off the back of the NRC. Assuming the whole team isn't going to be blow-ins and the competition is actually going to act as an outlet for WA talent, they will need to create the best part of a whole professional team and training set-up pretty soon. They aren't going to be able to just chuck something together a couple of weeks out - they need to get a full team and replacements training full time in preparation for next year; call it 30 players.

    Part of that program would also be playing Pindan, which would make it the only Premier competition with the opportunity to play professionally. Some from other states might find that a tempting possibility...my preference would be that they would only contract players playing here, but also that they would go for long contracts. SR will certainly be tempted to pirate players from here, so I hope they make sure if they did they would have to pay out a solid transfer fee.

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    I certainly do not begrudge Dave for taking the role to do the best thing for his fellow coaches and players. It does sting though seeing the ARU and Rebels get exactly what they wanted all along. Will be great if the article saying he'll be coaching the Force in the IPRL is true

    Definitely holding a very big grudge against the FUARU though, and it's pretty much killed my interest in the Wallabies and Super Rugby, which is very sad. Was very much looking forward to attending my 5th Rugby World Cup in a row in Japan to follow the Wallabies, but certainly won't be doing that any more.

    However, I do also think that the parties involved in reviewing and signing the "Alliance" agreement, and formulating our legal battle have a fair bit of accountability in the Force being no longer.
    Term means the period commencing on the Commencement Date and ending on the expiry date of the last of the SANZAR Broadcast Agreements (being 31 December 2020) or, subject to clause 2.4, if the last of the SANZAR Broadcast Agreements is terminated or renegotiated earlier as a result of the renegotiation of the commercial terms of a broadcast arrangement, such earlier date.

    Blind Freddy could see that the definition of the Term in the contract (as below) left us wide open to being vulnerable for disbanding. The end date of the term should have been an unambiguous December 31, 2020 with no qualifications. Furthermore, it should've actually been something like 2026 instead if Pulver & co were promising that the Force would be around for a long time to come, and we were the first ones to accept the centralisation cost saving measures. Yes we needed money so weren't in the strongest bargaining position, but the ARU was also bound to field 5 teams so couldn't just let us fold. These should have been non-negotiable terms from our end to ensure our continued existence. It's been obvious for some time now that we were far less supported than the other franchises, so we should not have been blindsighted to a backstabbing.

    Further to that, our legal challenge to our being cut was way too narrow and only concentrated on this definition. Even Justice Hammerschlag found this surprising as noted in the summary of the appeal. Why we didn't pursue other items like the contract and sale not being done in good faith, and the ARU not acting in good faith as required by the agreement (and I'm sure there's probably more we could have argued) was clearly a big mistake and we had all of our legal eggs in that basket.

    In the end, Lavan has done pretty well out of this with a very large legal bill, despite being one party that I assume would have reviewed the Alliance Agreement and also formulating our legal defense. I know everyone at Lavan / RugbyWA / Western Force was probably doing their best to do the right thing, but it seems like there have been a lot of mis-steps by those in charge that have led to this outcome, and just saying that they were hoodwinked by the ARU isn't really a great defense.

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    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    Can't disagree with you Chiraag

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison View Post
    Can't disagree with you Chiraag
    Ditto, summed it up pretty well IMHO Chiraag.

    But what is done, is done, we have no choice but to move on, we got royally outplayed by a mob of shysters and the people fighting for our future made some missteps, like we all have at times.

    Maintain the rage, hope the Force can rise from the ashes and if we ever get the chance, pay the bastards back big time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiraag View Post
    I certainly do not begrudge Dave for taking the role to do the best thing for his fellow coaches and players. It does sting though seeing the ARU and Rebels get exactly what they wanted all along. Will be great if the article saying he'll be coaching the Force in the IPRL is true

    Definitely holding a very big grudge against the FUARU though, and it's pretty much killed my interest in the Wallabies and Super Rugby, which is very sad. Was very much looking forward to attending my 5th Rugby World Cup in a row in Japan to follow the Wallabies, but certainly won't be doing that any more.

    However, I do also think that the parties involved in reviewing and signing the "Alliance" agreement, and formulating our legal battle have a fair bit of accountability in the Force being no longer.
    Term means the period commencing on the Commencement Date and ending on the expiry date of the last of the SANZAR Broadcast Agreements (being 31 December 2020) or, subject to clause 2.4, if the last of the SANZAR Broadcast Agreements is terminated or renegotiated earlier as a result of the renegotiation of the commercial terms of a broadcast arrangement, such earlier date.

    Blind Freddy could see that the definition of the Term in the contract (as below) left us wide open to being vulnerable for disbanding. The end date of the term should have been an unambiguous December 31, 2020 with no qualifications. Furthermore, it should've actually been something like 2026 instead if Pulver & co were promising that the Force would be around for a long time to come, and we were the first ones to accept the centralisation cost saving measures. Yes we needed money so weren't in the strongest bargaining position, but the ARU was also bound to field 5 teams so couldn't just let us fold. These should have been non-negotiable terms from our end to ensure our continued existence. It's been obvious for some time now that we were far less supported than the other franchises, so we should not have been blindsighted to a backstabbing.

    Further to that, our legal challenge to our being cut was way too narrow and only concentrated on this definition. Even Justice Hammerschlag found this surprising as noted in the summary of the appeal. Why we didn't pursue other items like the contract and sale not being done in good faith, and the ARU not acting in good faith as required by the agreement (and I'm sure there's probably more we could have argued) was clearly a big mistake and we had all of our legal eggs in that basket.

    In the end, Lavan has done pretty well out of this with a very large legal bill, despite being one party that I assume would have reviewed the Alliance Agreement and also formulating our legal defense. I know everyone at Lavan / RugbyWA / Western Force was probably doing their best to do the right thing, but it seems like there have been a lot of mis-steps by those in charge that have led to this outcome, and just saying that they were hoodwinked by the ARU isn't really a great defense.
    Hence my hesitation to invest hard earned and it be in trust with Lavan.
    Hypothetically what happens if those scheming bastards turn to Dave and says mate here's a wallabies gig but you can't be over there with those grubbyForce people as well. Where do people's opinion stand on that? Hypothetically but potentially!

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    Quote Originally Posted by boof1050 View Post
    Hence my hesitation to invest hard earned and it be in trust with Lavan. Hypothetically what happens if those scheming bastards turn to Dave and says mate here's a wallabies gig but you can't be over there with those grubbyForce people as well. Where do people's opinion stand on that? Hypothetically but potentially!
    That imho is the key reason why the contract winds up in 2019. What's the bet he has been told he's pencilled in for the gig. These blokes don't seem to have any problems cashing cheques that haven't been written yet, why not one more?

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    C'mon the

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    I will not believe anything that the media write .. I want Wessels to come on FOX sports Kick and Chase and state that e will come back and bring every player he took and the others in the yr 2017 team and play for the western IPRC team..
    I hold no malice against him and the players taking anther job at Melborne .. He is a pro coach and the players are also in need of a team to play for.. But if the ECRU cave in and lift the Salary cap to accommodate players then thats crap..
    The Rebels and any other team for that can not ask for assistance from the ECRU as that would just give the Senate Inquiry to drop the hammer big time..

    Till the ECRU board is cleaned out and the trolls at the NSWRU and QLDRU recognise that rugby is played in all states and territories in Australia I will not support any team..

    Has Twiggy had anything to say? I think he needs to start getting public to hold the support as if he leaves this to long it will take some hard work to get Fans back..
    Even if it is thru the TWF .. Someone should invite Mat Hodgson, Twiggy and a few others to become members here just to keep the Faith.. ... I remember that sign at a game someone had.. WE HAVE FAITH

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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by boof1050 View Post
    Hence my hesitation to invest hard earned and it be in trust with Lavan.
    Hypothetically what happens if those scheming bastards turn to Dave and says mate here's a wallabies gig but you can't be over there with those grubbyForce people as well. Where do people's opinion stand on that? Hypothetically but potentially!
    Unfortunately it's not just Lavan to blame, but also the senior staff at the Force and/or RugbyWA (whomever was involved with reviewing the alliance agreement). I don't believe many of those people have changed either....but I certainly hope they've learnt their lesson and approach future endeavours with a greater degree of due diligence and caution.
    It would be nice to see some or all of those parties accept that responsibility and perhaps forfeit as much of their salary / legal fees towards Rugby in Western Australia (grass roots / future force / etc.)

    In terms of coaching, if Dave got the Wallabies gig then I wouldn't expect him to come back to WA / the Force, since it would mean he'd have to be part time in each and that wouldn't work well (I thought it was ridiculous when Cheika was doing that).
    Would imagine Wallaby selections under Dave would be far more balanced than what we've got for the last decade or so!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chiraag View Post
    Term means the period commencing on the Commencement Date and ending on the expiry date of the last of the SANZAR Broadcast Agreements (being 31 December 2020) or, subject to clause 2.4, if the last of the SANZAR Broadcast Agreements is terminated or renegotiated earlier as a result of the renegotiation of the commercial terms of a broadcast arrangement, such earlier date.
    Well it's all starting to come out now. Whoever the fuck signed off on that has made a massive stuff up. I left school at fifteen and went straight to the meat works so whilst I'm not stupid I am what you would call a fairly basic kind of bloke but I am smart enough to never have left myself wide open to signing off on something as vague and open ended as this agreement as to the way it is worded.

    Did Lavan send down their office cleaner to go over this contract because this a major fuck up that signed our death warrant.
    No wonder Eastern staters think we are all still walking backwards over these parts, the ARU must have been laughing their heads off when this agreement was signed off, I would hope that anyone who had anything to do with this fuck this up didn't actually get paid, that would disappoint me greatly.

    Big difference between being book smart and street smart.

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    Last edited by westies man; 01-10-17 at 06:51.
    Wests Scarborough 1st Grade juggernaut has played finals rugby each and every year since its inception and continues this remarkable feat yet again this season and unbelievably it's still rolling on.

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    Can we get back to Dave Wessels please?

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by westies man View Post
    Well it's all starting to come out now. Whoever the fuck signed off on that has made a massive stuff up. I left school at fifteen and went straight to the meat works so whilst I'm not stupid I am what you would call a fairly basic kind of bloke but I am smart enough to never have left myself wide open to signing off on something as vague and open ended as this agreement as to the way it is worded.

    Did Lavan send down their office cleaner to go over this contract because this a major fuck up that signed our death warrant.
    No wonder Eastern staters think we are all still walking backwards over these parts, the ARU must have been laughing their heads off when this agreement was signed this off, I would hope that anyone who had anything to do with this fuck this up didn't actually get paid, that would disappoint me greatly.

    Big difference between being book smart and street smart.
    harsh but fair

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    I love it when I come to my local internet and read something that's considered and makes sense. I would have loved Dave to take a supper high paying job some where in the Northern hemisphere. I'd have loved a bunch of ex Force players to follow him. Then I would have had a new team to support and cheer for.

    I wish Dave and whom ever travels by his side, all the best. But his choice of clubs does disappoint me.

    I watched the Australia v South Africa with only mild interest in the result last night. I think I may go and by my self an All Blacks Jersey.

    Thanks for the post figjam

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    Quote Originally Posted by westies man View Post
    Well it's all starting to come out now. Whoever the fuck signed off on that has made a massive stuff up. I left school at fifteen and went straight to the meat works so whilst I'm not stupid I am what you would call a fairly basic kind of bloke but I am smart enough to never have left myself wide open to signing off on something as vague and open ended as this agreement as to the way it is worded.

    Did Lavan send down their office cleaner to go over this contract because this a major fuck up that signed our death warrant.
    No wonder Eastern staters think we are all still walking backwards over these parts, the ARU must have been laughing their heads off when this agreement was signed off, I would hope that anyone who had anything to do with this fuck this up didn't actually get paid, that would disappoint me greatly.

    Big difference between being book smart and street smart.
    And here we were giving sevenmile a bake!
    Certainly we need to take a hard look in our own backyard.

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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by antiussentiment View Post
    I watched the Australia v South Africa with only mild interest in the result last night.
    Speaking of which; it's 9:00am and I don't know who won. There's no thread or comments on here so far. Can't believe I'll go look for the result now hoping the Boks got up.



    Quote Originally Posted by antiussentiment View Post
    I think I may go and by my self an All Blacks Jersey.
    Even after all that's happenned you still should give yourself an uppercut.

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    Why we didn't pursue other items like the contract and sale not being done in good faith
    Rugby WA went for the Alliance Agreement and arbitration as they wanted the quickest resolution to determine whether the 'ARU' had a right to kick the Force out. They also had to form a Force squad for the 2018 season as players had to commit as they had been held back by the contract embargo. The other items were part of a plan B which they may do so after the Senate Inquiry and may also explain why the WA Government hasn't tabled their motions against the 'ARU' yet. From what Senator Reynolds said in the first part of the Inquiry that the WA Government has their documents that they are willing to submit which may be the contracts that McGowan is referring to. The Vic Government aren't willing which suggests that there are no documents or if there are the paperwork isn't signed.

    Quote Originally Posted by westies man View Post
    Well it's all starting to come out now. Whoever the fuck signed off on that has made a massive stuff up. I left school at fifteen and went straight to the meat works so whilst I'm not stupid I am what you would call a fairly basic kind of bloke but I am smart enough to never have left myself wide open to signing off on something as vague and open ended as this agreement as to the way it is worded.

    Did Lavan send down their office cleaner to go over this contract because this a major fuck up that signed our death warrant.
    No wonder Eastern staters think we are all still walking backwards over these parts, the ARU must have been laughing their heads off when this agreement was signed off, I would hope that anyone who had anything to do with this fuck this up didn't actually get paid, that would disappoint me greatly.

    Big difference between being book smart and street smart.
    Rugby WA were coerced in to signing that agreement as a condition to get ARU 'support' as the so called ARU turned down a request for the loan. They had no choice.

    If you want stupid it is Wessels and his assistants signing a contract with the Rebels who have not proven their finances and they had other options on the table that they could have taken. These coaches are highly educated men. You don't sign long term contracts with organisations that can't prove that they are viable especially in Rugby where your shelf life is limited. If the Rebels can't prove their finances and end up at the begging bowl they have misled their playing staff in to signing contracts to join them. We will have to see if it is actually genuine and bidding in regards to whether the Force players and coaches joining the Rebels have agreed to play in the IPRC.

    I have mentioned in my submission to the Senate Inquiry to monitor these transactions and get the relevant bodies to examine where the Rebels are getting the money from. If it is from the ARU both 'organisations' as I use that term loosely they should be taken to town. I also asked them to monitor whether the QRU have had financial assistance from the ARU. If it is after the ARU turned down the Force on the basis of no more loans then Rugby WA and even the WA Government could have a big opportunity in court.

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    Last edited by Bakkies; 01-10-17 at 09:29.

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