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Thread: Super rugby draw 2018

  1. #16
    Senior Player SPaRTAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FingerTips View Post
    It's the complete cutting off of top tier competitive rugby in WA that gets me, without any obvious attempts to find a less drastic solution - the only acknowledgement from the ARU about what they have done has been Clyne's statement:

    Clyne and his ARU flunkies know that this is a terminal act - the "nuclear option" as Wayne Smith of The Australian called it.

    There is (was) a lot of value in the Sea of Blue - what the accountants call "goodwill". But the ARU has trashed that value, and it's going to be a long time before anything like that value can be recreated in WA. If the Western Reds are an example of what lies ahead, then we will not see high tier rugby union in WA for another 20+ years, such has been the damage inflicted on the game in WA.

    I suppose there's an outside chance that we may see something from Twiggyball, but I'm not confident enough to bet a good single malt on it.
    Have to agree with that. This is soul destroying. They have ruined Western Australian rugby with absolutely no remorse, and worse they have alienated and incredibly lost a sizable chunk of their fan base and viewership.

    What annoys me is Melbourne is almost 3x the size of Perth and still struggles to pull a crowd even remotely close to what the Force average, and they have only just begun their tenure too, The Force averaged up to 30k in their first few years and kept those crowd numbers well above 20k for some considerable time before the slide which will inevitably happen to any sporting team lacking success, the crowds were starting to come back for the Force and they had the passionate sea of blue which was a real fan base, and that includes this site, its a true fan site, how many other super rugby franchises have anything like the sea of blue or Thewholeforce fan club. They have cut their most passionate supporters off at the knees with no contingency plan in place, its sad, and truely shambolic, and with the whole damning senate inquiry it now seems to be corrupt. I could only imagine the Melbourne crowds will dwindle to as low as 4-5k a game 12 years into their existance, and for a population larger than New Zealand that is pathetic.

    I am cancelling Foxtel like everyone else and wont watch this tripe anymore, I will be letting the operators know exactly the reasons why too. The whole ARU board need to go and the Australian Federal Police should launce an investigation into the sham contracts and money trail, anything less than this is pure injustice.

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  2. #17
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FingerTips View Post
    If the Western Reds are an example of what lies ahead, then we will not see high tier rugby union in WA for another 20+ years, such has been the damage inflicted on the game in WA.
    I'm beginning to buy the theory that WA rugby will recover more slowly than league. the whole burnt twice syndrome. It could be 30 years or more before this is forgotten. The Reds died largely as a result of poor business decision making of their own. The Force were cruelly slaughtered just as they entered the upswing. It could be much much worse than the Reds

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    C'mon the

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    I'm beginning to buy the theory that WA rugby will recover more slowly than league. the whole burnt twice syndrome. It could be 30 years or more before this is forgotten. The Reds died largely as a result of poor business decision making of their own. The Force were cruelly slaughtered just as they entered the upswing. It could be much much worse than the Reds
    20 years is a long time and a lot can happen in that time, but it is 20 years since the demise of the Western Reds in 1997.
    Regular high tier Rugby League matches only returned to WA in 2009 (one NRL match per year 2009-2013 and 2015, 2 NRL matches per year 2014 and 2016-2018, and the first league international at nib in October 2016).

    Unless something unexpected comes out of Twiggyball, WA faces having a whole generation who will never have seen a high tier rugby union match (including the Wallabies). That will be a generation for whom Rugby Union is that game played on the eastern side of Australia.

    I think that this may be the real challenge which Rugby WA (and any of its successors) will face in the post Western Force years.

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  4. #19
    Champion chibi's Avatar
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    Cutting the Force really makes all the strides WA has made, pointless.

    We need a bloody positive announcement soon.

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    Last edited by chibi; 22-09-17 at 11:57.


    Japan and the Pacific Islands for Aussie Super 9's!

    Let's have one of these in WA! Click this link: Saitama Super Arena - New Perth Stadium?

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    Champion sittingbison's Avatar
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    Unless the IPRC succeeds, there will not be another Test here after 2019 Bled

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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sittingbison View Post
    Unless the IPRC succeeds, there will not be another Test here after 2019 Bled
    These numbers are the reported attendances at Wallabies vs Springboks matches in Australia.
    I don't understand the trends in them - perhaps a demographic analyst could explain them.

    Year Subi/nib, Perth Suncorp/Gabba, Brisbane ANZ/SFS, Sydney Etihad, Melbourne
    1998 38,079
    1999 31,677
    2000 77,048 34,042
    2001 42,658
    2002 37,528
    2003 51,188
    2004 42,507
    2005 43,278 61,534
    2006 41,578 60,522
    2007 51,174
    2008 41,838
    2009 36,148 47,481
    2010 44,284
    2011 52,718
    2012 34,377
    2013 43,715
    2014 25,718
    2015 37,633
    2016 30,327
    2017 17,528

    (I obviously have too much time on my hands.)

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  7. #22
    Legend Contributor blueandblack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by travelling_gerry View Post
    How amateurish is this from Fox

    Attachment 5062


    Should have used this instead:

    Name:  scoreboard.jpg
Views: 282
Size:  27.3 KB

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  8. #23
    Senior Player SPaRTAN's Avatar
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    And here we have South Africa expanding, meanwhile Australia retracts... truely remarkable.

    ===
    SA set for two new franchises

    Jurie Roux – franchises Jurie Roux
    Published on September 22, 2017
    0
    Two new South African franchises will be formed by the end of the year.

    A tender process will begin on 4 October, with SA Rugby looking to have four franchises in Super Rugby and four in Europe.


    The two new franchises could play in the Anglo-Welsh Cup.

    ‘We have four teams in Sanzaar; we have two in Pro14 and the other two will start to develop to play somewhere,’ SA Rugby CEO Jurie Roux told the New Zealand Herald. ‘Hopefully something like the Anglo-Welsh as a development tournament. At the right time in 2020 [when the current Sanzaar broadcast deal ends] we can then make a decision on where our bases are.’

    Roux again insisted that SA Rugby is committed to Sanzaar beyond 2020.

    ‘We believe we are as strong as we are because we play Australia, Argentina and New Zealand. We measure ourselves by those teams even though the north is getting better.’

    SA Rugby president Mark Alexander recently said the Springboks could field two different teams – one for matches in the southern hemisphere and one for those in the north – but Roux said this would not be the case.

    ‘Having two completely different teams, that’s ridiculous. Why would you not play your best team? You might get to a situation where you select four or five players because they are more adapted to the northern hemisphere. Test rugby is too competitive to play the same players week in, week out
    ====

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  9. #24
    Senior Player SPaRTAN's Avatar
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    When you see the expansion and backup plan for the South African franchises and compare it to what the EARU has done to the West it just makes the whole situation stink even more.

    What the hell has happened? Why?

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  10. #25
    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    Why? Self interest and jobs for the boys, in my opinion.

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  11. #26
    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    Hi all,

    If any of you has any spare time on your hands and would like to do some rugby research, I am keen to find out what the travel schedule was like for the 5 Aus SuperRugby teams for the last year of the (original!) Super 15 comp and the first year of the Super 18 comp. Specifically, I'm trying to establish whether it was more burdensome (and therefore more costly) after the expansion to 18 or whether it was more or less the same due to less SA trips or NZ trips etc.

    Thanks

    A

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  12. #27
    Legend Contributor blueandblack's Avatar
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison View Post
    Hi all,

    If any of you has any spare time on your hands and would like to do some rugby research, I am keen to find out what the travel schedule was like for the 5 Aus SuperRugby teams for the last year of the (original!) Super 15 comp and the first year of the Super 18 comp. Specifically, I'm trying to establish whether it was more burdensome (and therefore more costly) after the expansion to 18 or whether it was more or less the same due to less SA trips or NZ trips etc.

    Thanks

    A
    Alison,

    For 2015 (16 games):

    The Brumbies travelled ~41,500km, the Force ~48,000km, the Rebels ~45,000km, the Reds ~47,000km, and the Waratahs ~44,000km. We actually had not a bad year travelling that year.

    Every Australian side played two games in South Africa and two in NZ. All the SA trips were 2-week tours, while we had a 2-week tour of NZ, but the other Australia sides went over twice for single games. We also had a 2-week tour of Sydney and Brisbane, which cut down the cross-country travel.


    For 2016 (15 games):

    The Brumbies travelled ~38,000km, the Force ~66,000km, the Rebels ~59,000km, the Reds ~37,500km, and the Waratahs ~50,000km.

    With the new format we played all of the Africa 1 conference (Bulls, Cheetahs, Stormers, Sunwolves - 2 home, 2 away) and all of the NZ conference, either 2 home and 3 away or 3 home and 2 away. We also played 3 home and 3 away against Australian teams.

    The Reds played 2 teams in SA and 2 in NZ (in one trip).
    The Brumbies played 2 teams in SA and 2 in NZ (separate trips).
    The Tahs played 1 team in SA (after the match in Perth) and 1 in Tokyo. They also played 2 in NZ (separate trips).
    The Rebels played 1 team in SA (after the match in Perth) and 1 in Tokyo. They also played 3 in NZ (separate trips).
    The Force played 1 team in SA, 1 in Tokyo and 3 in NZ (all in 1 3-week tour), plus 3 separate cross-country trips.

    The Brumbies and Reds travel was reduced (1 fewer away game each). The Waratahs also had 1 fewer away game, but had 1-week tours of both SA & Japan, so their travel increased.
    The Rebels and Force both still had 8 away games (& 7 home) and had 1-week tours of SA & Japan, plus our 3-week tour of NZ. For the Force & Rebels, the travel increased by 14,000-18,000km (BTW, the round-trip to Tokyo is ~16,000km!).

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    Last edited by Sheikh; 26-09-17 at 20:20.
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  14. #29
    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheikh View Post
    Alison,

    For 2015:

    The Brumbies travelled ~41,500km, the Force ~48,000km, the Rebels ~45,000km, the Reds ~47,000km, and the Waratahs ~44,000km. We actually had not a bad year travelling that year.

    Every Australian side played two games in South Africa and two in NZ. All the SA trips were 2-week tours, while we had a 2-week tour of NZ, but the other Australia sides went over twice for single games. We also had a 2-week tour of Sydney and Brisbane, which cut down the cross-country travel.

    I'll do 2016 now.
    You are a star Sheikh! Thank you :-)

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  15. #30
    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
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    For 2017 (15 games):

    The Brumbies travelled ~52,000km, the Force ~65,000km, the Rebels ~44,000km, the Reds ~63,000km, and the Waratahs ~45,000km.

    This year we played the Africa 2 conference (Kings, Lions, Sharks, Jaguars). Teams which played 2 home and 3 away NZ teams last year had it reversed, and the Force and Rebels had 8 home and 7 away games, while the other Australian sides had 7 home and 8 away.

    The Rebels played 2 teams in SA and 2 in NZ (in separate trips).
    The Tahs played 2 teams in SA and 3 in NZ (in 2 trips).
    The Brumbies did a 2-week tour of SA & Argentina. They also played 3 in NZ (in separate trips).
    The Reds did a 2-week tour of SA & Argentina. They also played 3 NZ teams in separate trips, one match being in Samoa.
    The Force did a 2-week tour of SA & Argentina and a 2-week tour of NZ, plus 3 separate cross-country trips.

    Doing a SA & Argentina round trip is ~32,000km, as opposed to trips to SA which are ~16,500km from Perth or 22,000km from the East Coast, so the Force's travel increased by ~16,000km between 2015 & 2017, and the Brumbies by 10,000km between 2015 & 2017.

    The kicker for the Force is that in 2016 the Rebels, Tahs and Force travelled to Tokyo while in 2017 the Brumbies, Reds and Force travelled to Buenos Aires. So we drew the long travel straw for both years. We should have had easier travel schedules for the next two years, as we'd have had the Sunwolves and Jaguars at home.

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