How Twiggy will run his rebel rugby comp

[AndyS]

To have a cross border competition you have to permission from two unions for the IRB to sign off on it. For example to have a trans Tasman competition the NZRU and ARU have to both agree with it.

Another reason Hansie raised potential succession from the ARU.

Do you? One of the teams they were looking at for SR was the Asia Pacific Dragons, primarily full of Pacific Island players. I don't recall them having to get Fiji's blessing for a barbarians style team, and I don't see why the Force couldn't be notionally designated something similar.

[Bakkies]

Yes it was mentioned by the IRB when the Welsh regions threatened to walk out of the then Pro 12 to join the English leagues that the WRU and RFU would have to sign off on it. The WRU would have never done that as they were contracted to supply teams to the Pro 12.

[AndyS]

My point being however, did the WRU have to sign off on London Welsh? More interestingly, could they prevent a new team being formed in an otherwise unrepresented part of Wales but playing in the English comp? And they could prevent them from engaging in a lawful activity how...?

[Bakkies]

A strange as it sounds London Welsh are seen as an English club registered there over 100 years ago that develops English players. London Welsh have a large mini, youth and amateur Rugby section. That's why the RFU wouldn't sign off on them playing in the Pro 12 which has been suggested.

If a Welsh region like the one up in north Wales wants to play in the English leagues the RFU will have to agree along with the WRU. Both unions have to sign off on it.

[chibi]

So maybe secession really is on the cards, unbelievable.

Still wish this competition would run at a different time to the NRC, would be good to have WA play in both, two comps a year with the same side; would give us a nice calendar of home fixtures.

[Bakkies]

Twiggy sees the NRC team as a development side for which what it is. All proper Rugby competitions have that with their A side fixtures. It is also a thinly veiled swipe at the Sydney clubs and ARU who canned the A level fixtures. These matches were key to help prepare players for Super Rugby and to promote club players to the next level.

[beige]

So maybe secession really is on the cards, unbelievable.

Still wish this competition would run at a different time to the NRC, would be good to have WA play in both, two comps a year with the same side; would give us a nice calendar of home fixtures.

The ARU and World Rugby asked Forrest to consider the March-June window. I hope it eventuates as that's the only way I see of having active Wallabies playing for the Force.

[zimeric]

The ARU and World Rugby asked Forrest to consider the March-June window. I hope it eventuates as that's the only way I see of having active Wallabies playing for the Force.

its also the best window to allow our superrugby players to jump ship and play in the IPRC instead of SANZAARS dying venture

[UAUdiver1959]

There is a very real issue of the ARU making a claim that this comp, in any form and during any calendar time period would not be in the best interest of Australian Rugby. Ballsy if they do. Every get the feeling that all of this 'time pressure' being placed on the ARU is for a reason?

Flush our RU bias? Compound the issues and bring them all to a head in Tokyo on Nov 14th?
Senate inquiry findings released on the 13th of November, the day before the World Rugby meeting in Japan.

[AndyS]

If a Welsh region like the one up in north Wales wants to play in the English leagues the RFU will have to agree along with the WRU. Both unions have to sign off on it.

The question being, or what? If the RFU signed off on it, what could the WRU actually do but have a whinge and exclude them from selection...are they going to get them arrested?

The entire cricket world opposed WSC, but it still happened.

[Bakkies]

The question being, or what? If the RFU signed off on it, what could the WRU actually do but have a whinge and exclude them from selection...are they going to get them arrested?

The entire cricket world opposed WSC, but it still happened.

I am not sure what you are saying here. You can't have a cross border competition without all relevant parties agreeing.

London Welsh had plenty of Welsh representatives back in the amateur era. They were quiet a successful club. There was never a chance of the three Exile clubs LW, Not Nots and London Scottish moving to the Pro 12.

The IRB as I have explained and will explain to you again have made it quiet clear for them to sign off on a cross border competition the relevant unions have to agree. In the example of the Welsh regions playing in the English leagues there was nothing for the IRB to sign off on as the WRU wouldn't sign off on it and the RFU were uncommitted.

[Bakkies]

As a side Twiggy has this to work with:

- Go straight to the IRB if the ARU don't sanction the comp by November 2nd which is his set deadline. He can say to them that the other unions have already approved this and he has government and private investors waiting
- By seeking union approval he is proving to the IRB that is not a rebel competition
- If the ARU don't do this he should put pressure on the IRB to sanction the ARU for breaching the game's charter and contracting the game is going against what they stand for. He can quote the Caledonia Reds example which I will get to below
- Ask the IRB what Western Australia can do to succeed from the ARU and what it will take for the separate union to be a part of the Oceania confederation as a test nation which is important for Rugby World Cup qualification. Olympic representation will need clarification as a separate WA union is still a part of Australian Olympic Committee's jurisdiction

In regards to the Caledonia Reds they were a professional Scottish district that were merged in to Glasgow as part of the SRU's restructure (pretty much what the ARU is trying to do with the Force players going in to the Rebels). Borders the other pro district was merged in to Edinburgh. This set back Scottish Rugby a long way and reduced their player base massively. Players went to play professionally in Ireland, Wales, England, SA and France.

Even though they were part of a merger Caledonia and Borders (which is a sparse hotbed of Scottish Rugby) have never hosted a Glasgow and Edinburgh competition game respectively even though they are supposed to be still alive as part of their mergers. A couple of seasons ago Glasgow moved a couple of Pro 12 games away from Scotstoun due to the pitch being unplayable (it's now been replaced by a 4G pitch) and they played the games in Kilmarnock. I never saw any articles about them considering playing the matches in Perth (not the Australian version!) and Aberdeen.

They have got themselves started up again as a representative side mostly playing against other rep sides which include club players from the Scottish Leagues. There hasn't been a significant enough push from the SRU to re-enter them in to the Pro 14 to play out of Aberdeen. Despite this there were reports of the SRU trying to link themselves up with London Scottish and buying in to Sale to develop players and target English born players that are Scottish qualified. London Scottish and/or Sale were pipedreams and didn't happen. They have still made it public they are targeting the dual qualified players, there are a couple of them in the Scottish test squad now. Hamish Watson (who should have been a Lion) and Ali Price. This has upset the English no end. There's an article on the BBC with a RFU response.

The SRU haven't done enough for Caledonia since the merger and it appears Caledonia have the money and population base. Pittodrie in Aberdeen is a ready made home venue that has been refurbished and hosted test matches.

[beige]

The question being, or what? If the RFU signed off on it, what could the WRU actually do but have a whinge and exclude them from selection...are they going to get them arrested?

The entire cricket world opposed WSC, but it still happened.

We'd be relying on players willingly disqualifying themselves from international rugby in that case - I'd be worried particularly about WA players moving elsewhere to chase higher honours which is the problem we're facing now.

[Bakkies]

and Rugby players that have played for rebel organisations or gone on rebel tours (particularly to SA) were ostracised.

[AndyS]

You can't have a cross border competition without all relevant parties agreeing...The IRB as I have explained and will explain to you again have made it quiet clear for them to sign off on a cross border competition the relevant unions have to agree.

And my question is, when you say "can't" and "have to", what is the or else? In your example, what could the WRU have done if the RFU had said OK and the teams went and played anyway? Complain to the IRB perhaps, but would the IRB really have delisted the Premiership or RFU for a couple of otherwise unloved clubs...they pulled up well short of that level of reaction even when the HC blew up (and who was it largely got their way when they finally negotiated the settlement for that?). And in our case too, what would the IRB do if the Asian countries recognised it and played anyway - it is not like they have anything much to lose.

If it came to all that, it almost certainly would mean disaffilation from the ARU. But it probably wouldn't be worth staying at that point anyway, given the relationship would already be well broken as soon as they said no. I don't see their agreement deciding whether the comp will happen though, only the basis for it. Or whether players would play - they go to Europe and Japan knowing it means they can't play internationally. But like playing at the same time as SR though, it would significantly drive up the wages bill.