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Thread: How Twiggy will run his rebel rugby comp

  1. #316
    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinBin View Post

    Being an active supporter of an EPL team that's bounced back and forth from the EPL>Championship>EPL, I can confirm that the threat of relegation (Down) AND the prospect of promotion (Up) creates huge interest/tribalism/broadcasting opportunities. I think Sheikh (Wigan?) can confirm that also plus any Leeds, Villa, Fulhum etc supporters on the site.
    Wigan? Close, mate, but Reading! (Admittedly I did go to university in Manchester, but I didn't think I had picked up too much of their accent!)

    Soccer in England, or really any of the top European leagues, have examples which show the importance of promotion and relegation on a club, and how it can go horribly wrong if you over-extend yourself. But it also creates strong rivalry with your local opponents, and even some far-flung opponents if there's a crunch match (Woking vs Doncaster springs to mind, over promotion from the 5th tier to the 4th!).

    Yes, the money in soccer has created some mega-clubs which are too big to get relegated (although tell that to Villa or Blackburn or Coventry or Juventus!) but if Leicester can win, then there was hope for the Force if a perfect storm of occurrences happens.

    French Top 14 or the English Premiership handle promotion and relegation in rugby perfectly well. A club getting relegated loses some of it's players, but then they probably needed to in order to reduce the wage bill and it just encourages the club to promote the academy players. I wonder whether the Italian sides in the Pro 14 wouldn't be so poor if they had the threat of relegation rather than guaranteed entry into the same competition the following year despite losing 90% of their games. The Lions nearly went out of business because there wasn't a real layer below Super Rugby to get relegated too (the Currie Cup might be profitable, but not if you are paying players Super Rugby wages).

    Going into a second tier at least gives some income and gives the fans the chance of getting a few wins next year. I know a number of fans of English 2nd tier soccer clubs (like Reading, Middlesbrough, Sunderland, etc) who enjoy the years out of the Premiership more because they are playing teams more on their level; Chelsea or Manchester City might be more skilful, but it's no fun watching your side getting beaten 3-0 every week.

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  2. #317
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    I don't think promotion/relegation would work. People point to European competitions and EPL as examples but what they have that works for their competitions that we don't have, is multiple divisions of wealthy clubs fighting it out whereas we have 4 Super Rugby teams and 6 IPRC teams. For promotion/relegation to work you need 30 plus strong clubs fighting it out over 2 divisions. We don't have that depth. You also need to provide a level playing field in terms of talent equalisation, income and broadcast revenue. Another thing Australian rugby doesn't have. You would also have to find time in between club, NRC and Super Rugby to hold an IPRC Division 2 competition, which looks very unlikely to happen. And as stated above, why would we allow the Force to be dropped in favour of the Tahds taking our spot in the IPRC? Theres no way i would support that. And theres no way the ARU would allow their protected species to be relegated either.
    Thats why i think we should be very wary and protective of who participates in the IPRC. The idea of this comp is to showcase WA rugby so we have something to be proud of. We want a no dickhead policy in place, that would rule out ARU participation instantly. We are taking the chance in setting up this new comp, therefore we should retain cotrol of governance and particpation so if there is a bunch of dickheads who want to get involved we can do our due diligence and reject them. We also need to be careful we don't repeat the mistakes of Super Rugby, expanding too quick, greed over product and woeful competition structure. We want a simple, round robin competition with finals based on integrity, on free to air and an engaging match day experience for the ticket holders. We don't need a heap of bells and whistles or novelty value to take away from the rugby, just players and a club we can relate to and follow in an easy to understand, fair competition where everyone has a chance of winning. Then all we need is the Future Force Foundation to expand and work with RugbyWA and the Minderoo Foundation to keep the Pindan Premier Grade growing and deveping through philanthropic efforts to underpin our IPRC team. An investment of $2 million a year would see significant change to WA rugby. $1 million to run a high performance academy for the best up and comers, $1 million to be divided equally between all WA clubs for kit, equipment and facilities to be controlled by a 3rd party to ensure the cash doesn't get used for poaching wars. 25 clubs = $40 000 each. Plenty of money for footys, tackle bags, jerseys, kitchen equipment etc. Clubs then have their own earnings to use on what they want, recruitment etc.
    When and more importantly, IF the time is right and if it won't bugger up our competition, we look at allowing EARU participation. Not before.

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  3. #318
    Immortal Contributor shasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exile View Post

    Ive got this bridge for sale, in Sydney harbor. beautiful views. Very popular.
    Does it come complete with a resident Mudskipper?

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  4. #319
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    the English Premiership handle promotion and relegation in rugby perfectly well
    Actually the Premiership doesn't. The team that gets relegated loses significant revenue (the parachute payment isn't enough to cover it) and doesn't gain funding from the European pot allocated to England the following season. Apart from Exeter teams have struggled with promotion and moving up the table.

    Ring fencing has been called for years as there are only four Championship clubs that meet the criteria to get promoted from the Championship. This would allow teams a better chance of recruiting and maintaining talent. It would also improve the quality of the Rugby as it does get dire when there are teams competing for survival.

    London Welsh lost their professional status trying to address the criteria, court cases and a botched relocation to Oxford (the are back now at Old Deer Park). Due to the convoluted two legged play off structure which I believe has been scrapped has made it difficult for the promoted team to recruit players.

    France is different as the top team from Pro D2 gets automatic promotion and the playoff system for the second spot is pretty simple. They also have better budgets and local authority support (particularly with stadia). Bordeaux and Lyon have also had access to bigger stadia in their cities which they now use as their full time home ground and are capable of filling it. Only really Bristol in England can achieve that.

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  5. #320
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    Hey thank you for your opinions on the IPRC and keep them coming. When I suggested. A second tier relegation/ promotion model it would depend on years of success as a comp itself and growth in participating teams. So I gather WA, Hong Kong, China x 2, Singapore, Japan. With maybe Fiji, Tonga, Samoa financed to join later so that becomes 9. If you then have teams also wanting to join etc from say NZ, even another team from Aus or SA 12 could be on the cards in the long term. If the two comps can work with sponsors, broadcasters and fans then Super rugby. It could be a whole new world for rugby thatís the dreamer in me I know. Iím not just thinking perth but how the great game can expand rather than retract and become insular.
    Iíd like to see a model that could even have a champions level northern hemisphere vs Southern Hemispheres top teams. Like I said there would be many years to work through before this would happen, but to become Big you have to think Big.

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  6. #321
    Champion SinBin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakkies View Post
    Leeds received financial relegation due to Rebels style mismanagement and they have been paying out managers who have barely been there over two months. ..
    Agreed, gross mismanagement through overspending on player signings and particularly player wages which made the fall to the lower tiers harder to recover from. They were however on a level playing field in terms of financial support from their parent body, not propped up artificially like the Rebels - it's a real world commercial sport there and they paid the price. The Rebels have never been financially viable - could probably say the some of the other franchises here with constant bailouts and creative accounting by the FUARU.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mothy View Post
    If you then have teams also wanting to join etc from say NZ, even another team from Aus or SA 12 could be on the cards in the long term.
    It could be possible.

    In saying that, I think expanding too far from the main timezone (i.e. trying to add teams from SAF or ARG) would be repeating Super Rugby's mistake. The crap viewing times and long, expensive travel is a death-knell.

    Doesn't mean you can't play teams from those far destinations, but it should be in a different comp ... which leads in to your other point:

    Iíd like to see a model that could even have a champions level northern hemisphere vs Southern Hemispheres top teams.
    A champions level comp is a great idea, if it's condensed and action-packed.

    Instead of North v South, this is the opportunity to bring in Africa and the Americas (European teams can be invited too, but don't forget they already have their own champion's league and may not be so keen). Pools and knockout, 7 or so games per team absolute maximum.

    You could even have two comps; Cup and Shield, like the Euros do, to get more teams in.

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  8. #323
    Champion SinBin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheikh View Post
    Wigan? Close, mate, but Reading..
    Both white and blue strip, one hoops, one stripes.. Bugger

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  9. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ham105 View Post
    Instead of North v South, this is the opportunity to bring in Africa and the Americas (European teams can be invited too, but don't forget they already have their own champion's league and may not be so keen). Pools and knockout, 7 or so games per team absolute maximum.
    You could even have two comps; Cup and Shield, like the Euros do, to get more teams in.
    Yep, syndicate out the idea of the IPRC to other regions. You could have Africa Rugby Cup (Kenya, Namibia,...), Americas Rugby Cup (Canada, US, Argentina x2, bring in the Pacific Islands - tourism potential for the Islands, plus Pacific players could have potential playing opportunities in US), a comp just for SA teams, a comp for NZ teams. As a finals series the top teams play each other, next level down play each other, etc. Exhibition teams from Northern Hemisphere could play in the finals too.

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  10. #325
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    Alot of the buzz around this comp has been lost i reckon due to the timeslot it is being run in.. what do us Force fans do during the whole 18 or so weeks of superrugby? Stare at the paint drying? Then when the internationals are on which gives us some viewing content along side the NRC we then get to watch IPRC.. sorry but you are slowly losing me with this..

    In some ways we may as well not even have the IPRC and just watch the spirit- if they even continue to exist..

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  11. #326
    Legend Contributor blueandblack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPaRTAN View Post
    Alot of the buzz around this comp has been lost i reckon due to the timeslot it is being run in.. what do us Force fans do during the whole 18 or so weeks of superrugby? Stare at the paint drying? Then when the internationals are on which gives us some viewing content along side the NRC we then get to watch IPRC.. sorry but you are slowly losing me with this..

    In some ways we may as well not even have the IPRC and just watch the spirit- if they even continue to exist..

    What did you do prior to 2006, when the Force first started playing?

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  12. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueandblack View Post
    What did you do prior to 2006, when the Force first started playing?
    Watched the wallabies whenever they played and nothing else. Now that I don't follow the wallabies, that leaves a bit of a gap

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  13. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPaRTAN View Post
    Alot of the buzz around this comp has been lost i reckon due to the timeslot it is being run in.. what do us Force fans do during the whole 18 or so weeks of superrugby? Stare at the paint drying? Then when the internationals are on which gives us some viewing content along side the NRC we then get to watch IPRC.. sorry but you are slowly losing me with this..

    In some ways we may as well not even have the IPRC and just watch the spirit- if they even continue to exist..
    It's called Pindan Premier Grade rugby, everyone has to start somewhere and with support for the grass roots we wont be able to field a team in any competition above it, no matter who runs it.

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  14. #329
    Champion chibi's Avatar
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    I wish that this competition ran at a different time to the NRC, it would be nice to see the Perth pro-team playing in two comps a year, more weeks of pro-rugby in WA.

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    So has anyone heard what's happening, announcements etc. After seeing Clyne yesterday and hearing all the bullshit with those fellas I'm not feeling confident that they will want this competition will get off the ground. Maybe it's time that Twiggy and co gave them the big F.U and started a rebel comp anyway. If we take away some more disgruntled players from the super system and start up here the ARU will have no choice to cede very soon and work in with Twiggy.

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