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Thread: Terms of Reference for a Senate Inquiry into the Future of Rugby Union in Australia

  1. #361
    Champion SPaRTAN's Avatar
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    I think the entire rugby community, not just the Western Australian rugby community is incredibly greatful for what linda Reynolds is doing for Australian Rugby. Someone finally has the toughness to not only pursue but take on a sports body that seems to have shred every last inch of its integrity, and after this damning senate inquiry, may actually be corrupt.

    I think alot has to be said and investigated about the relationship between Imperium and the ARU and the conflicts of interest associated with all parties involved with all the dealinga including the sale to the VRU. It seems ridiculous that the sale was meant to have been declared to the ARU, then we have on record the ARU saying they were unaware of the sale, and then a journalist claiming to have a source saying they were not only aware, but endorsed the sale to save the Rebels. Where is the integrity of a national sporting body in that?

    What also bothers me is the huge sum paid to prop up Melbourne when it was that club that has caused financial ruin on all the other remaining clubs by getting bailouts and loans written off in confidenrial agreements with 3rd parties that have conflicts of interest with the governing body of the sport. The whole thing is riddled with what looks like blatent corruption and finally this is being exposed for what it truely is by a senate inquiry long overdue. The two other senators have my respect too for showing such a keen interest in pursuing this travesty and injustice.

    The whole thing makes me so angry. If it wasnt for the senate inquiry there would have been no justice, these dodgy dealings wouldnt have been exposed, and this whole charade would have continued on.

    Now we are all without a team, with slight optimism but in reality we are hurting deeply. The ARU couldnt even have a contingency plan for the club and terminated the license as soon as they practically could, it really does hurt to the bone, just the sheer ignorance and arrogance and lack of empathy they seemed to have and show, these clowns, the whole board, Eales, Robinson, Clyne, Pulver, Clarke, Cox and North, just all horrible evil people. Totally corrupt to the core. Hope they get whats coming to them, go Linda!

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  2. #362
    Champion SPaRTAN's Avatar
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    Can you beleive that Melbourne with a population bigger than New Zealand can only average between 6-8k a game when they are still a relatively new club when the Force broke 30k and averaged well over 20k for many years and maintained such a core supporter group that stuck with the side through the darkest of days and still kept coming back in Force even when the ARU refused to spend an equal share of their grants on the team and left them to wither away all the talent.

    I reckon Melbourne will be averaging 4-5k to their stadiums in a few years. No one seems to give a toss about the club yet the ARU emphatically support them for no good obvious reasons other than what is being exposed during this senate inquiry.

    They seem to have a total disrespect for the WA government and their investments too which is very east coast centric.

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  3. #363
    Rookie JPR's Avatar
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    For all the positive things that the ARU are stating about they will totally support rugby in WA.
    The senate must get on record that the ARU will give back to the Western Force their I.P.
    Fully endorse the IPRC, with all players especially in WA being able to play for international honours.

    Senate points of reference include;
    The role of national & state based bodies in encouraging greater national participation in Rugby Union.

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    Last edited by JPR; 21-09-17 at 21:38.
    One Team - One Dream - Go The Western Force

  4. #364
    Champion SPaRTAN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPR View Post
    For all the positive things that the ARU are stating about they will totally support rugby in WA.
    The senate must get on record that the ARU will give back to the Western Force their I.P.
    Fully endorse the IPRC, with all players especially in WA being able to play for international honours.
    Agreed, the IP must be given back and this question must be asked during the next hearing. It should be transfered for $1 debt free ofcourse and the ARU should increase their grant to WA rugby to help support the Force reinstatement in a professional competition, this grant (although it will never be the size of super rugby sides) should be much larger than any other state/union.

    Or just let us back into super rugby. Grrrrr

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  5. #365
    Veteran Bakkies's Avatar
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    Absolutely Spartan. I have also written a lengthy email to Senator Reynolds encouraging her to widen her scope far beyond Western Australia as ACT Rugby, western Sydney and country Rugby clubs, schools and supporters have also been treated appallingly by the ARU and NSW Rugby. Obviously not on the same level as the Force supporters and organisation have day one but this has going on for a long time. I wrote numerous paragraphs on how the Force and Brumbies were undermined by the ARU in their structural reforms and by the attitudes of certain Sydney Rugby officials that still continues.

    What I mentioned goes along the lines of

    - Apart from sacking staff the ARU have no plan implemented for WA Rugby and unlike SARU didn't seek alternate competitions for the Force which will come to roost eventually
    - Force players were pushed towards to playing in the Sydney and Brisbane comps which made it very difficult for them to condition their players. Same occurred at the Brumbies which is why they all now are aligned to ACT clubs. Andy Friend pushed for it eventually got through under Jake White. Stated that this and the NRC has led to more local development and club comps in both areas
    - The ARU need the Force and Andrew Forrest as there are reports out of SA that more teams are looking to leave Super Rugby. They gave the Force and Twiggy the same dismissive attitude they showed to Mr Whinney. Funny enough that the Cheetahs are starting to turn around their player retention which has been a problem for years
    - The ARU should have the book thrown at them if they refuse to cooperate with bizarre answers and undermine their inquiry
    - The ARU continue to show such an appalling attitude towards the Force who have support from elsewhere in Aust and from overseas
    - That it looks like the ARU have thrown Pulver under the bus as he hasn't appeared in recent ARU press conferences and at the meeting with Twiggy in Adelaide
    - The Brumbies/ACTRU didn't have a board representative in his first stint as CEO despite having a Super Rugby team that was the best in the country and supplying numerous players to the Wallabies
    - The Kookaburras/Vikings were kicked out of both the Sydney and Brisbane club comps. The Vikings won the Brisbane Premiership every year they were in the comp
    - The ACT schools were kicked out of the NSW Waratah Shield for being too strong. These are school kids who want to play successful Rugby and it's not their fault the NSW officials couldn't attract the likes of the GPS and CAS schools
    - The NSW Country Eagles barely have a country presence due to the involvement of the likes of Easts, Sydney Uni and Randwick who can't afford to tender for their own team (the Stars were probably mostly funded by Warren Livingstone who involved Balmain a subbies club)
    - Country pathways to those NRC teams haven't been mentioned to entice the next Lathos, AACs, Badgers, Hodgsons, etc
    - Parramatta and Penrith don't have an NRC affiliation (this would never happen in SA and NZ) despite being part of the original Western Sydney Rams who played out of Parramatta Stadium in the NRC

    John O'Neill needs to be called up as he continues to remain teflon despite being called upon for soundbites and has taken pot shots at Gary Flowers the former CEO who brought in the Force through a democratic vote (unlike the current dictatorship) and the ARC which gave the Force platform to develop players.

    Here is O'Neill's rap sheet
    - Suggested in the late 90s that the Brumbies moved to Melbourne
    - Pushed for a fourth Australian team before he left but was told by other partners he didn't have the playing depth and a national comp to push through players
    - Got rid of the ARC rather than re-structure the comp. Instead that led to clubs being used as the third tier and several went broke. We need to know if this is why
    - Signed Deans to another contract while the Wallabies weren't performing before the RWC
    - Took a two million dollar pay out from the ARU
    - The Rebels came in under his 'leadership' which needs to reviewed to back up what Clyne and Pulver said about the Rebels being unviable from day one
    - Centralised development on Sydney and Brisbane which doesn't work in a country as big as Australia
    - Took away academies and from what Laurie Fisher has stated they haven't been brought back. He has seen how successful they are overseas
    - Suggested as a back up plan that the Force play in a SA conference in the re-structure for the 2011 competition
    - The Rebels were allocated up to ten foreign players while not giving extra support to the Force who had their development structures pulled from under them
    - Left the game in all state which has no doubt led to a lot of reviews. Pulver has done a lot to bring back pathways, introduce the NRC and so forth. Unfortunately his legacy will be tarnished by the not so Alliance Agreement which he has to take ownership for seeking to be terminated, not putting out a veto at Sanzaar level and the behaviour behind the scenes with the Rebels
    - Was involved in other organisations were supposed to working as the ARU's CEO

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    Last edited by Bakkies; 22-09-17 at 08:39.

  6. #366
    Veteran Bakkies's Avatar
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    Should also add those four examples Badge, Hodgson, AAC and Latho are all country lads who didn't go to boarding school in the city. Instead they went to public schools in the home community. The first three are from around the NSW Central Coast an area that has been crying out for its own NRL team.

    Not every country player is fortunate like Simmons, Moore, Carter and co to a big school in the city playing in front of the schoolboy selectors. There were excellent stories on Kick and Chase with Burgess, Hoiles and Berrick Barnes going up to places like St George in Qld and Rowena in northern NSW. They were told of the difficulties and lack of support in regards to getting Rugby sides up and running in the bush especially for boys out of school. St George/Roma area is a serious producer of talent. Darren Lockyer, Arthur Beetson, Brent Tarne, Willie Carne and Chris Johns are from there and the way things we aren't going we won't see the next Chris Johns and Lockyer in Rugby.

    South of Sydney the likes of Kiama, Wollongong and Shell Harbour also produce serious Rugby players like Andrew Walker, Scott Fava and Dan Palmer that all of played for the Wallabies (and should have more caps than they did). I don't think that either of them went to a private school in Sydney or Canberra.

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    Last edited by Bakkies; 22-09-17 at 08:50.

  7. #367
    Champion andrewg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bakkies View Post
    Absolutely Spartan. I have also written a lengthy email to Senator Reynolds encouraging her to widen her scope far beyond Western Australia as ACT Rugby, western Sydney and country Rugby clubs, schools and supporters have also been treated appallingly by the ARU and NSW Rugby. Obviously not on the same level as the Force supporters and organisation have day one but this has going on for a long time. I wrote numerous paragraphs on how the Force and Brumbies were undermined by the ARU in their structural reforms and by the attitudes of certain Sydney Rugby officials that still continues.
    You're doing a great job Bakkies.

    Keep up your efforts as it can be quite cathartic.

    May you continue to run the race and not grow weary!

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  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPaRTAN View Post
    I reckon Melbourne will be averaging 4-5k to their stadiums in a few years. No one seems to give a toss about the club yet the ARU emphatically support them for no good obvious reasons other than what is being exposed during this senate inquiry.

    They seem to have a total disrespect for the WA government and their investments too which is very east coast centric.
    i am still trying to come to terms with the fact that pulver reminded the senators that the Australian winter sports market is the most competitive for support in the world. I will not argue this point, but to on the back of this cut the team from a state that has 4 level one sports teams (2 AFL, 0 NRL, 1 FFA (soccer) and 1 SR). instead of a team from a state that has 14 (1 SR, 10 AFL, 1NRL, 2 FFA) it just doesn't make sense (nothing does though) i might put it into a really big spreadsheet, things might look different then

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  9. #369
    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    The big spreadsheet appears to have now morphed into a scorecard of indeterminate size!! At least, according to Willy Puller's testimony at the inquiry earlier this week.

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    Proudly Western Australian; Proudly supporting Western Australian rugby

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison View Post
    The big spreadsheet appears to have now morphed into a scorecard of indeterminate size!! At least, according to Willy Puller's testimony at the inquiry earlier this week.
    That's not the only thing of Billy's which is of indeterminate size

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  11. #371
    Champion SPaRTAN's Avatar
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    Does anyone know what may have been said "in camera" which is obviously a private session. It went for 30min right? Because the inquiry resumed later than the times listed on the parliament website. I assume Pulver got read the riot act? But does anyone know what these "in camera" sessions usually contain in terms of discussion. The senators were quite angry when they went to this session.

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  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alison View Post
    The big spreadsheet appears to have now morphed into a scorecard of indeterminate size!! At least, according to Willy Puller's testimony at the inquiry earlier this week.
    I am amazed it took a senate inquiry to uncover what you managed to uncover months ago with the readily available annual reports. Just goes to show the poor level of investigative journalism in this country. If this had happened in the UK or the States you can bet your house that a newspaper would have ran the story and launched a full scale investigation even before one of the senators got wind and launched the inquiry. Thanks for all your efforts because everything you put forward now appears to be true and finally reported in our incredibly dull media.

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  13. #373
    Player UAUdiver1959's Avatar
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    What we must do is keep Rugby viable in WA at an elite level (somehow), we need to keep the infrastructure, keep some of the exisiting leaders (Sinderberry etc), the Future Force scheme and if possible the Force Academy. We need to elevate the level clubs are playing at by getting existing Force front of Jersey sponsor and corporate sponsors on board to pay for good players to remain in Perth with the help of Mr Forrest. Retain the core group of Force players willing to stay in either the IPL or the domestic comp. Next year we may be back and we have to be ready for it.

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  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by aemcanuff View Post
    i am still trying to come to terms with the fact that pulver reminded the senators that the Australian winter sports market is the most competitive for support in the world. I will not argue this point, but to on the back of this cut the team from a state that has 4 level one sports teams (2 AFL, 0 NRL, 1 FFA (soccer) and 1 SR). instead of a team from a state that has 14 (1 SR, 10 AFL, 1NRL, 2 FFA) it just doesn't make sense (nothing does though) i might put it into a really big spreadsheet, things might look different then
    It really is quite ridiculous when you think about how many sporting sides there actually are. Perth already had done the ground work supporting the Force, they were established loved and part of the Western Australian sporting landscape. But like anything it was too good to be true and killed off by the EARU, i sometimes do wonder why we havent succeeded given the really shitty treatment we get from the East Coast, it feels like we are all a bunch of human punching bags. Sad.

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  15. #375
    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPaRTAN View Post
    I am amazed it took a senate inquiry to uncover what you managed to uncover months ago with the readily available annual reports. Just goes to show the poor level of investigative journalism in this country. If this had happened in the UK or the States you can bet your house that a newspaper would have ran the story and launched a full scale investigation even before one of the senators got wind and launched the inquiry. Thanks for all your efforts because everything you put forward now appears to be true and finally reported in our incredibly dull media.
    Thank you Spartan. I think the lack of media take up is partly because of vested interests and partly because newspapers these days are totally dependent on advertising and so editors make decisions about what to publish based on what is likely to attract the best advertisers. For example, a big spread in The West on the Eagles will have advertisers queuing up to be alongside it because it'll be read by many people, whereas as a big spread about the Force (no matter how damning about the ARU) just doesn't have the same buying power.

    That's my cynical take on it anyway!

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