Arbitration hearing - Western Force v ARU - 31.07.2017

[Massimo]

If it goes according to what usually happens, the parties would have provided their evidence and written submissions, will speak to the Arbitrator on them, will present their final arguments, and the Arbitrator will reserve his decision and present it in written format in (usually) one to three weeks.

Don't get your hopes up for an immediate decision.

I am very nervous too! And everywhere it's written and spoken that decision is imminent! Not another 3 weeks please!

[Sheikh]

One thing I just dont understand.

from the outside looking in, the Melbourne Rebels have never seemed to be short of money. They have always seemed to be well sponsored. Membership and supporter base appears strong - except for this year.

Why did they need so many top ups from the ARU?

Where did the money go?

Did the Vic Government charge exorbitant rent for the Stadium?

Did they overpay some players?

Lou - thanks so much for joining us and answering our questions. Can you answer mine?

Not with any certainty that my views, presumptions and opinions are in any way correct, but:

I noticed that the Rebels this year and a variety of sponsors on their jerseys. In their final game with us players had Wilson, Land Rover, Massey Ferguson or PFD on their shirt-front (see below or here) and for some games this year they had no major sponsor at all and just had BLK (who supply their kit!). So I'm not sure that they did have a major naming rights sponsor since Rabobank left in 2015, similar to the Force for a couple of years before Road Safety came in. We might have been losing a bit of money towards the end of the Emirates deal, but not having a naming rights sponsor did coincide with us going into the red, so extrapolating, if the Rebels also failed to land a major sponsor they could have been a lot more short on money than they budgeted for.

Also, they definitely overpaid for some players early in their life. When they set up they were allowed 10 foreign players which they could pay anything to, but only a fixed amount counted towards their salary cap (I think it was $150k/player which was the salary cap divided by 30). The foreign players (I think they only had 8 in the end) were all stars on big(ish) money (Cipriani was reportedly on north of $500k), but were paid 'average' money in the cap, so the Rebels could overpay ordinary players to flesh out the squad. When they got Beale from the Waratahs, the reports were he was getting a $200k wage hike over what the Tahs could offer.

[lou]

Ok, I think we get the idea , so I'll move on. What about Gary Gray? Do you have any thoughts on his role in this saga? He was the President of the VRU when Rob Clarke was at the ARU in 2006-2007 handing out money to the unions for the failed ARC, and their friendship goes back to when Rob Clarke was CEO of the Brumbies circa 2012-03. So when Rob Clarke came to Melbourne town in 2013-14, imagine the joy for Gray, to have his old mate back! And then together they, Gray and Clarke, sought out Cox, a kiwi, whose company, Imperium has an advisory board with Graeme Billings as an advisory Board member. Billings is also a board member on GUD Holdings along with Jonathon Ling (who spent a lot of time in NZ) and Ling was the Chairman of the Melbourne Rebels (until Friday). What a happy circle of friends they all are. Thoughts??

[valzc]

The more this saga unfolds and details emerge, seems to me to be a wonderful case for the Corruption Committee. There have been so many red flags waving around for this long I don't know how this shitty pack have dodged the bullets!

[Sheikh]

Ok, I think we get the idea , so I'll move on. What about Gary Gray? Do you have any thoughts on his role in this saga? He was the President of the VRU when Rob Clarke was at the ARU in 2006-2007 handing out money to the unions for the failed ARC, and their friendship goes back to when Rob Clarke was CEO of the Brumbies circa 2012-03. So when Rob Clarke came to Melbourne town in 2013-14, imagine the joy for Gray, to have his old mate back! And then together they, Gray and Clarke, sought out Cox, a kiwi, whose company, Imperium has an advisory board with Graeme Billings as an advisory Board member. Billings is also a board member on GUD Holdings along with Jonathon Ling (who spent a lot of time in NZ) and Ling was the Chairman of the Melbourne Rebels (until Friday). What a happy circle of friends they all are. Thoughts??

I do sometimes wonder about the problems with linking people like this:
a) it's not unusual for board members sit on boards of numerous companies or organisations.
b) many people who sit of boards for companies/organisations come from similar backgrounds and so often mix in their own social circle.
c) being members on the same board doesn't necessarily make them friends (eg, Pulver and Stooke!).
d) going to the same school or playing for the same team (even if it was at the same time) also doesn't necessarily make them friends.

However, there is a certain security in giving jobs to people you know, even if they may not be friends or may not be the best person for the job. If you know them you can presume how they will react in certain situations; whereas an unknown person may react in an unknown way. 'Jobs for the boys' is more than just giving an old mate or the son of an old mate a position so they have an income, it's about knowing that you can be reasonably assured that any decisions which are taken are in your best interests; and if those decisions go the wrong way you can always have 'a quiet word'.

So Clarke, Gray, Cox, Billings, Ling, etc, may not be friends, but may simply move in similar circles and thought they saw in each other a shared purpose (be that a love of rugby or a love of screwing money out of the ARU - I'll leave for others to debate!)

[shasta]

The more this saga unfolds and details emerge, seems to me to be a wonderful case for the Corruption Committee.

Great idea. When the Rebels and Force both survive they should move to have this looked into. According to the current constitution this Corruption Committee will consist of two members from the QRU, 3 from NSWRU, 1 from the other state RU's 1 from the Reds, 1 from the Tahs and one each from...............

[Kalahard]

Ok, I think we get the idea , so I'll move on. What about Gary Gray? Do you have any thoughts on his role in this saga? He was the President of the VRU when Rob Clarke was at the ARU in 2006-2007 handing out money to the unions for the failed ARC, and their friendship goes back to when Rob Clarke was CEO of the Brumbies circa 2012-03. So when Rob Clarke came to Melbourne town in 2013-14, imagine the joy for Gray, to have his old mate back! And then together they, Gray and Clarke, sought out Cox, a kiwi, whose company, Imperium has an advisory board with Graeme Billings as an advisory Board member. Billings is also a board member on GUD Holdings along with Jonathon Ling (who spent a lot of time in NZ) and Ling was the Chairman of the Melbourne Rebels (until Friday). What a happy circle of friends they all are. Thoughts??

Lou, i respect your points of view as the lone Rebels supporter who gets on here to have a chat. The collateral damage from all of these wheeler dealer types spinning their webs is that we, The Western Force and it's proud supporters, are facing the prospect of losing our franchise because of the impact these types have had on the ARU and it's ability to remain profitable after 7 years of throwing millions of extra dollars at the Rebels with impunity. The chip on our shoulders should be obvious for all to see. The Reds and Waratahs have been extended multiple loans from the ARU in times of hardship. The Brumbies have received assistance in times of hardship. The Rebels, who have been extended over $20 million in assistance and have gone broke twice, have now had a 3rd opportunity extended to them to right their finances after the VRU had more debt wiped and bought it for a dollar. The very first time, after watching the 4 other franchises receive lifelines, we seek ARU assistance, we get the ARU trying to deceive us out of our license and shut us down. Where is the fairness in that? Where is the same opportunity to right ourselves financially that the others have received? Why is our proposed ownership model being dismissed without it being afforded the same opportunity to succeed or fail as Melbournes ownership models? Why are our grassroots only receiving $200 000 a year yet we are the 3rd largest grassroots competition in the country, putting our grassroots funding in the same bracket as Super Rugby powerhouses Tasmania and the NT? Why did we get fined by the ARU for recruitment practices when the ARU is actively paying out European contracts to parachute players back into QLD and NSW to strengthen them and not us? Now Genia to Melbourne for almost $1 million a year but our players get denied top ups. Why did the Rebels get the extra funding on startup for salary cap we were never given? This extra assistance in salary cap on startup allowed Melbourne to recruit some young players, Jones Inman Alo-Emile Ah-Nau, from us that set us back another 5 years in our recruiting and list building. The extra cap to Melbourne allowed you guys to sign a number of overseas players, why were not afforded the same concessions at the same time in 2011 to help combat the effects of an extra franchise on Australias player pool? Or even in 2006 upon startup?

Like i said in the other post, the collateral damage to Australian Rugby by its favourtism and unequal funding practices and unequal recruiting policies, in conjunction with the VRUs lobbying, enabling and pillaging of the ARUs finances is having a profound effect on the rugby landscape, especially here in WA.

[BLR]

Good stuff Kala, we have been our worst enemies in the past but damn we haven't had much rub of the green with the ARU compared to the other franchises.

[Alison]

Great idea. When the Rebels and Force both survive they should move to have this looked into. According to the current constitution this Corruption Committee will consist of two members from the QRU, 3 from NSWRU, 1 from the other state RU's 1 from the Reds, 1 from the Tahs and one each from...............

And that is exactly why the ARU gets away with everything scott free. Everything it does is sanctioned/requested by the NSWRU and QRU, and everything it doesn't do is similarly sanctioned/requested. Bugger what everyone else might or might not want. Hence why I don't see anything changing unless someone uncovers the corruption and persuades a body with regulatory powers to get in and investigate, or someone within funds a moral backbone and blows the whistle to someone with legal authority to investigate.

[Kalahard]

The latest Neddies News -

The Super Rugby Saga: Get Your Ticket in the Rebels Chook Raffle
AUGUST
9
THE SUPER RUGBY SAGA: GET YOUR TICKET IN THE REBELS CHOOK RAFFLE
Well readers, the full time whistle is about to be blown in the Australian Super Rugby saga, with Sydney QC Bernard Coles finalising his ruling on last week’s RugbyWA-ARU arbitration hearing.
But while the confidence in the RugbyWA camp is building, there is also a growing view that irrespective of the arbitration outcome, neither the Rebels nor the Force will get the Super Rugby axe. In which case, the whole toxic saga of culling an Australian Super Rugby team will have been a waste of time.
The Force look safe either way. A favourable arbitration ruling will ensure the Perth team remains in the Super Rugby competition for at least another three seasons. And if the Force lose the toss of the coin at arbitration, the ARU will face an immoveable object in the form of Andrew Forrest. Twiggy’s message to the ARU is unambiguous: “Come at me bro.” Besides, the smoking gun your correspondent referred to last week is still smoking away…
As for the Rebels, they’ve probably done enough to muddy the waters on their side to make it too difficult for the ARU to cull them – the clandestine $1 transfer of the licence from private owner Andrew Cox to the Victorian Rugby Union (VRU) being the latest step in their smoke-and-mirrors strategy. The ARU maintains it has the right to veto the transfer of the Rebels licence, but does Australian rugby’s governing body really have the stomach for another protracted legal blue to prove its point? Almost certainly not.
But there is still an elephant in the room for the Rebels if they want to even countenance staying in Super Rugby.
If the VRU is in fact the proud new owner of the Rebels, who is paying the bills and indemnifying the operating losses? As Cuba Gooding Junior famously asked in the movie Jerry Maguire: Show me the money. It takes a lot of chook raffles to run a Super Rugby team.
According to the propaganda out of Melbourne, the Victorian Government could have a role to play. (Perhaps former Wallaby John Welborn has some insight into that. After all, the Resolute Mining CEO’s booth at the Diggers & Dealers mining conference in Kalgoorlie this week was right next to the Victorian Government’s booth).
As your columnist has explained previously, the Victorian Government won’t directly bail out the Rebels because this would cause uproar from the many other struggling sporting teams in Bleak City. And it can’t direct event revenue from block-buster Bledisloe Cup matches held in Victoria because that money is pledged to the ARU, not the VRU.
So where will the money come from for the VRU to sustain a Super Rugby team with no sleeve or front-of-jumper sponsors? According to one theory, the VRU is looking to copy what the Force did. That is, seek a sponsorship deal with the Victorian Government’s equivalent of WA’s Road Safety Commission.
If that rumour is on the money, expect an announcement in the next few days as the Rebels look to shore up their rear guard action to stay in Super Rugby. If it’s not true, then perhaps the ARU will just wait for the Rebels to fall over to achieve its original objective of culling an Australian Super Rugby team through natural attrition.
As always, stay tuned ….


http://nedlandsrugby.com.au/2017/08/...-chook-raffle/

[travelling_gerry]

4pm in Sydney, public servant hours almost up!

[.X.]

public servant hours almost up!

thats 4:21

[fulvio sammut]

The Arbitrator's decision will not be released publicly by him or her.

It will be delivered to the parties simultaneously (probably by email) and it will be up to them to release it.

You can bet the winner will flash it first.

[shasta]

Question: If Rugby WA are successful; and if the ARU chop the Rebels using breach of contract re the transfer and notifies SANZAAR of that; and then if SANZAAR notify all stakeholders of same and issues a 2018 fixture with no Rebels, what course would the Rebels take? Court action I suppose. Does the High Court have a say over international bodies - like SANZAAR? Or do they just go at the ARU while Super 15 marches on? Do the Rebels need to show they have the readies to fund such an action?

Bigger question: Does the ARU board have the balls to do that?

[Jules]

The Arbitrator's decision will not be released publicly by him or her.

It will be delivered to the parties simultaneously (probably by email) and it will be up to them to release it.

You can bet the winner will flash it first.

So unlikely to be today then if nothing heard yet?