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Thread: Arbitration hearing - Western Force v ARU - 31.07.2017

  1. #151
    Player lou's Avatar
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    You make a good case, but could I suggest that for the most part - the ARU has been the architect who planned the payments to the Melb Rebels. In the first instance, when the Rebels were 'gifted' back to the VRU by Mitchell and co, the ARU, Bill Pulver, over rode the boards decision to appoint a CEO and instead, appointed Rob Clarke, (his old school mate), who he had 'run into at a school sports do on the Sunday'. Rob Clarke was given an open cheque book by the ARU to run things as he saw fit during his two seasons at the club. Then, Peter Leahy took over for one season, and had begun turning the ship around into almost 'even stevens' territory. This was when Rob Clarke sold the franchise to Andrew Cox for $1 and promises to continue to pay Cox about $6-7 million . These payments were secret and only came out when Wilson and Smith reported them end of March 2016 just before the annual report was published. Again, distressing for ARU, but not due to Tim North, and this is why I say they were the architects of this flawed model - because they rejected an offer to buy the Rebels in 2014 that was set to cauterise their payments to the Rebels as at December 2014. So my question is, and this is really to the ARU, please explain to the rugby community why you chose to make these absurd payments to a millionaire and then blame the Rebels because there is no money for grass roots rugby?

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  2. #152
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    Bloody Rob Clarke has an awful lot to answer for. And the fucken flea has flown the coup and taken the easy way out of this shit fight!

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  3. #153
    Veteran valzc's Avatar
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    I also agree with you Lou, the ARU are definitely the architects of the disaster. People are accusing Twiggy of not coming out sooner, but he has actually been providing powerful support over the years to the Force in Force Foundation and areas. However we as the rugby community cannot be expecting a 'saviour' to rescue the ship, the Force need to become independently viable with a strong base which is what they are doing with all of the rugby community supporting as well, and not expecting handouts whenever it gets tough. We can't expect Twiggy to just bail the Force out - the community needs to (and is) going to keep the ball rolling. What frustrates me is because of the handouts, the MRRU never got out of their comfort zone and actually start to build a base but then stand back in shock that its all falling down. And even more notably, the noise of support coming from Brumbies, Tahs and Reds has been deafening - ALL teams should have been coming out in support at the start which may have derailed this whole fiasco, instead of cowering in their own states in case they get shafted.

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  4. #154
    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    At what point does "mateship" become corruption?
    And I wonder whether Clarke, Pulver, Clyne, Day et al are all members of the Sydney Masonic Society?

    Jobs for the boys. It's worse than the Mafia.

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  5. #155
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    So it's the ARUs fault that over 7 years no one within Victorian Rugby has been able to come up with a sustainable business plan, stop the bleeding and find measures to stop the bailouts that have caused the ARUs financial peril?
    So it's the ARUs fault that the VRU has not come up with any grassroots programs that replicate the community funded model of something like the Future Force Foundation?
    So it's the ARUs fault that the VRU was so desperate for a Super Rugby team that they lobbied the ARU into establishing the franchise regardless of the predicted financial ramifications?
    So it's the ARUs fault that 2 private owners have bailed out due to significant personal financial losses/potential losses trying to keep afloat a business that should never have been set up?
    Tim North has been there the whole time, he's not just a blow in trying to right the ship, he has fingerprints all over this situation we now find ourselves in. Tim North has been central in negotiations for every contract and financial bailout negotiations the VRU has had with the ARU and the private owners. In his pursuit of building his own little kingdom he has made huge problems for the ARU and the effects of the ARUs financial peril are being paid for by other states. Rob Clarkes behavior with the ARU cheque book, while flabbergasting to say the least, was enabled by the pursuit of the success of Victorian rugby by the VRU, who throughout this whole fiasco has been led by Tim North. At any moment in the last 7 years Tim North could have used his perceived genius to say to the ARU "hey, this writing us of blank cheque after blank cheque is going to have ramifications later down the track, should we stop this and find alternatives to bleeding the ARU dry?" I know parochialism may blind you to some of this but the rest of Australia knows dam well the scenario we are now in because of the blind pursuit of whats good for some but not good for all. Some lawyers may think they are untouchable and holier than thou etc, but the reality is, in every legal matter, arbitration or court case 50% of the lawyers are wrong. Movies like the Castle may paint QCs as some kind of modern day saviour but in reality they are ruthless and pursue an outcome regardless of the collateral damage. In this situation, the rest of Australia is bearing the brunt of this collateral damage.

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  6. #156
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    I take a lot of your points Kala, but the ARU has at least a part to play in the Rebels' saga, to blindly sit by and write blank cheques while the organisation marches towards insolvency is not Tim North's problem, it's Todd Day (intersting that isn't it?) and Bill Pulver (Why is he still there) and Rob Clarke (who got the job out of the blue because Pller's a mate, then got the ARU job as a result of his work at the Rebels)

    Tim North might not be innocent, but I challenge anybody to refuse wheelbarrows of money being offered to help you build a business in a difficult market. Particularly when the AFL have been incredibly successful with an arguably similar model.

    If RugbyWA had been offered extra funding to set up a successful franchise, I reckon they would have taken it. They probably would have spent it making mistakes like Giteau, Mitchell and O'Connor, we needed the tough times to realise that the mercenaries weren't going to put in for the team. The Rebels have had the challenge of never actually having a tough time, so it's understandable that, as an organisation, they're mentally weak, for God's sake, we're only starting to develop the toughness we need to succeed this year and we're nearly twice their age, without any support, pretty much dodging bullets for 12 years.

    I wouldn't be ripping into the rebs too much, save the anger for those who are meant to be guardians of our game.

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    C'mon the

  7. #157
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    I just don't see the argument "the ARU gave us bucket loads of money to operate our business therefore we have no responsibility for how it was spent".
    Could Bernie Madoff/Alan Bond/Christopher Skase/Charles Ponzi seriously walk into a court and say "the bank/investor loaned me money but what i did with it is irrelevant"?

    It takes 2 to tango.

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  8. #158
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahard View Post
    It takes 2 to tango.
    Actually that was the point I was trying to make. We might be arguing the same point from different sides. I thought it sounded like you were laying the majority of the blame on Tim North.

    After writing that sentence, it occurs to me that I haven't checked whether North is an old school buddy of Puller, therefore I'm open to the possibility that Puller has bankrupted the ARU and destroyed it's talent pathway as a favour to a school mate, but I'd be arguing that the ARU, as the giver of the cash, has a responsibility to their stakeholders (ie the players, members and fans) to ensure that the money distributed is going to benefit the code as a whole. The VRU and the Rebels do not have a responsibility to any other union, therefore thay are perfectly within their rights to take whatever handout is offered and use it for the good of Victorian rugby.

    I'm not ignoring the shortsightedness of ignoring the fact that destroying Aussie rugby will eventually be destructive to Victorian rugby, but that's not necessarily deceitful, just dumb.

    Returning to my realisation in the second sentence.....if Tim North has coerced any of this......you can go right ahead tearing him a new one.

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    Last edited by GIGS20; 08-08-17 at 11:25. Reason: it needs to make sense
    C'mon the

  9. #159
    Veteran Contributor hertryk's Avatar
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    STOP PRESS!!
    RugbyWA has just called me and they are sending me a letter which they have requested I put on this site.. waiting for it to come through... watch this space..

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  10. #160
    Immortal jargan83's Avatar
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    The waiting game sucks, let's play hungry hungry hippos...

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  11. #161
    Immortal Contributor The InnFORCEr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hertryk View Post
    STOP PRESS!!
    RugbyWA has just called me and they are sending me a letter which they have requested I put on this site.. waiting for it to come through... watch this space..
    http://twf.com.au/showthread.php?p=435833#post435833

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  12. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by jargan83 View Post
    The waiting game sucks, let's play hungry hungry hippos...
    Or Mysterium. Much more fun.

    So are we waiting on the open letter?

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  13. #163
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    One thing I just dont understand.

    from the outside looking in, the Melbourne Rebels have never seemed to be short of money. They have always seemed to be well sponsored. Membership and supporter base appears strong - except for this year.

    Why did they need so many top ups from the ARU?

    Where did the money go?

    Did the Vic Government charge exorbitant rent for the Stadium?

    Did they overpay some players?

    Lou - thanks so much for joining us and answering our questions. Can you answer mine?

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  14. #164
    Veteran Contributor hertryk's Avatar
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    rugby wa letter

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  15. #165
    Veteran Contributor hertryk's Avatar
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    While a computer guru was trying to upload onto here I spoke with Alison to say the open letter was already on here.. Well you have it twice now

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