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Thread: Reserve grade strength

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    Reserve grade strength

    Just want to know people's opinions on the strength of the reserve grade comp as a whole at the mid way point of the season. I know there were a few 100 point drubbings early in the season but those have stopped and we recently saw for example UWA reserves beat nedlands (2nd) then get pushed hard by wanneroo and baysie. UWA of course one of the sides who conceded 100+. I feel personally the strength of the competition as a whole is good and that palmyra are just exceptional this year. Will be interesting to see some results after this weekend to see where different clubs are at with the strength of their second side.

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    Veteran Ecky's Avatar
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    Seems to me to be a gaping chasm between the top few and the rest. As an example Neddies beat Wanneroo last fixture by something like 50 - 25 but should have beaten them by 60-70.

    In turn, it concerns me that the relatively low quality of "the rest" is not helping the Premier Grade in those clubs.

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    Champion zed's Avatar
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    How can you attract quality players to your club only to have them play reserve or 3rd grade? You can't. Unless they have some form of connection to the club. And that is why clubs like Wanneroo will continue to struggle. The only solution for the clubs that lack depth is to get rid their reserves, have their "2nd XV" playing lower down the grades at a competitive level. This system works well in the UK. Your first XV will be playing teams in the same league whilst your 2nd XV will be playing teams whose 1st XV is in 3 leagues higher or 3 leagues lower. The system we have in WA is archaic, non-competitive and favours the stronger clubs. It's frustrating that RWA have never addressed this. What would happen if Wanneroo refused to put out a reserves side and only Prems, 3rds and 4ths? We'd lose all points, so be it. Perhaps that's what clubs should start doing. It becomes a bit farcical when players (usually front rows) are playing 2, even 3 games and guys in their 50s are having to step up to reserve grade to ensure we don't lose any points. If you cannot field a competitive side in reserve grade then so be it, you shouldn't be penalised for this and you shouldn't be obligated to pressure older players and players new to the game into playing a level way too high. It's sport, it's supposed to be fun, losing by 80 points isn't fun for either team.

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    All clubs struggle for front rowers in all grades, that is a fact of life. What is strange is that Wanneroo 4th grade would belt both their 2nd and 3rd grades. The two teams between them have won one game so far this season and yet your 4th grade are top of the ladder.

    I watched your club a few weeks back and you are quite correct there was a player who looked to be at least mid fifties making up the numbers but he wasn't playing front row.

    I asked one of your club stalwarts why was this tolerated and he replied if we force all these young guy's from 4's to play up the grades they won't play.

    I'd be more concerned about why are a bunch of young men are allowed to dictate to your club on their terms instead of buying into a club culture.

    Fuck them off and start again instead of trying to spread teams all over Perth because it suits you guy's or because it works in England.

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    Wests Scarborough 1st Grade juggernaut has played finals rugby each and every year since its inception and continues this remarkable feat yet again this season and unbelievably it's still rolling on.

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    Champion zed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by westies man View Post
    All clubs struggle for front rowers in all grades, that is a fact of life. What is strange is that Wanneroo 4th grade would belt both their 2nd and 3rd grades. The two teams between them have won one game so far this season and yet your 4th grade are top of the ladder.

    I watched your club a few weeks back and you are quite correct there was a player who looked to be at least mid fifties making up the numbers but he wasn't playing front row.

    I asked one of your club stalwarts why was this tolerated and he replied if we force all these young guy's from 4's to play up the grades they won't play.

    I'd be more concerned about why are a bunch of young men are allowed to dictate to your club on their terms instead of buying into a club culture.

    Fuck them off and start again instead of trying to spread teams all over Perth because it suits you guy's or because it works in England.
    Valid point. I'll reply when I have more time, but essentially I agree with you.

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    Champion zed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by westies man View Post
    .

    I watched your club a few weeks back and you are quite correct there was a player who looked to be at least mid fifties making up the numbers but he wasn't playing front row.

    I asked one of your club stalwarts why was this tolerated and he replied if we force all these young guy's from 4's to play up the grades they won't play.

    I'd be more concerned about why are a bunch of young men are allowed to dictate to your club on their terms instead of buying into a club culture.

    Fuck them off and start again instead of trying to spread teams all over Perth because it suits you guy's or because it works in England.
    I haven't been down the club for a year or so and that's disappointing to hear what's going on. 4th grade at Wanneroo was traditionally the team where the ex-first graders went once they'd reached "retirement" age, so was mostly guys in their 30s and 40s. They had some success and so I guess guys at the club are attracted to the team that is the most successful. But this is poisonous for the club and will no doubt cause bitterness and resentment. Unless you're old and broken you should be striving to play as high as possible. Uni were doing this for years with their 4th grade side and it became a bit of a joke, young guys in their 20s who should have been playing 1st grade running around playing against guys in their 40s and 50s..

    Congratulate these young 4th grade players at Wanneroo, tell them they've been selected to play reserves, if they don't like it, like you said, they can fuck off. Kind of explains why I got a call to see if I could play 3rd grade because they were short, 4th grade refusing to step up.

    It's clear that there needs to be some fundamental changes at Wanneroo, this is perhaps our poorest season in a long time, Prems, reserves, 3rd grade all bottom and 4th grade top?

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    Last edited by zed; 12-06-17 at 15:54.

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    Many of the so called wanneroo supporters "haven't been down to the club for a year or so " .

    Perhaps if they had the roo dogs would be in better shape?

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    I am really a Palmyra troll.

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    4th and 3rd grade players not watching to step up is a symptom of clubs having two tiers, Prems/Ressies and 2nd class citizens.

    Players feel like they belong down the grades, why should they step up when reserves get desperate considering the senior coaches probably don't even know their names?

    If you have a good club culture where all players feel like 1st class citizens you won't have this problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zed View Post
    I haven't been down the club for a year or so and that's disappointing to hear what's going on. 4th grade at Wanneroo was traditionally the team where the ex-first graders went once they'd reached "retirement" age, so was mostly guys in their 30s and 40s. They had some success and so I guess guys at the club are attracted to the team that is the most successful. But this is poisonous for the club and will no doubt cause bitterness and resentment. Unless you're old and broken you should be striving to play as high as possible. Uni were doing this for years with their 4th grade side and it became a bit of a joke, young guys in their 20s who should have been playing 1st grade running around playing against guys in their 40s and 50s..

    Congratulate these young 4th grade players at Wanneroo, tell them they've been selected to play reserves, if they don't like it, like you said, they can fuck off. Kind of explains why I got a call to see if I could play 3rd grade because they were short, 4th grade refusing to step up.

    It's clear that there needs to be some fundamental changes at Wanneroo, this is perhaps our poorest season in a long time, Prems, reserves, 3rd grade all bottom and 4th grade top?
    If a player cannot commit to regular weekly training sessions (work, life or just being lazy) or only play every other weekend (eg work, FIFO) then where are they suppose to play other than 4th's? As a coach I would expect a lot more training commitment from reserve grade players than from my 4ths. Just a thought

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugaree View Post
    4th and 3rd grade players not watching to step up is a symptom of clubs having two tiers, Prems/Ressies and 2nd class citizens.

    Players feel like they belong down the grades, why should they step up when reserves get desperate considering the senior coaches probably don't even know their names?

    If you have a good club culture where all players feel like 1st class citizens you won't have this problem.
    I would imagine at Wanneroo, it's a case of they want an easier game for a successful team, rather than stepping up to reserve grade and getting smashed 80 - 0.

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    I'd love to go to a wanneroo training because as a person outside the club it just looks like the players lack direction and structure. I'm not directly blaming either coaches or players because I simply don't know but to me they just look like they lack a game plan. I wonder if this is because the players in second and third grade are disillusioned by the way the 4th grade is stacked and they possibly feel like they are not valued by the club. Would love to hear from a wanneroo insider.
    I'm only using wanneroo as an example because there is a number of clubs that seem like they have this problem

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amazing View Post
    I'd love to go to a wanneroo training because as a person outside the club it just looks like the players lack direction and structure.
    Roodogs plan was "no more buying a team, develop the youth", I stress was. For a coach to tell players what to do, then' possibly through frustration, pull on the boots, and win the match for the team really doesn't improve the team's performance/process, it merely gets a W (outcome/product) on the board. The real result is that the club now becomes results hungry, and demands the coach play every week. In effect, rather than buy loads of players we buy a coach, who plays every now and then, and can win a match of his own bat. For the rest of the team development disappears, or the possibility of it, as it does for the coach.
    Playing is not coaching, loads of great players find that out, as eventually do the players they coach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralto View Post
    Roodogs plan was "no more buying a team, develop the youth"
    Confused because I heard dollars was the reason an unnamed young prop ended up at roodogs? Could be wrong? Yet to pull on the jersey though.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amazing View Post
    Confused because I heard dollars was the reason an unnamed young prop ended up at roodogs? Could be wrong? Yet to pull on the jersey though.
    aaargh, then it's failing on both fronts.

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