British and Irish Lions Tour of NZ

[Sheikh]

Ref should have played advantage as it looked like Oliver had a good chance of scoring a try after picking up the loose ball

But didn't the ref originally consider that Read was the one at fault for jumping into the Lions player? I thought his first contact with the TMO was to identify whether Read was guilty of foul play.

As the Lions then knocked the ball on, the ref would have blown up as the Lions failed to get advantage from what the ref thought was originally All Black foul play. Therefore, the fact that the All Black gathered the subsequent spill would have been seen by the ref as the ABs gaining an advantage from foul play.

[yungfen]

Cheika is an idiot and we all know that James.
I agree 100% with Gigs, the ABs (Incl fans) should show more respect for referees. Did not hear anything about refereeing bad calls at the 2011 World Cup final!

[Hansie]

I have no doubt that during all our collective years playing and coaching this most wonderful of team sports, we were told or we told, Our game is governed by Laws and as such open to the interpretation of the Referee. We don't have rules where an umpire has no such discretion. How many times have we stood next to each other and argued if - when a ruck was formed - did the pilferer support his own weight, or if a crooked throw in a lineout when the opposing team made no effort to compete should we stop the game? Should Poite have awarded a penalty on the basis that most other referees have done so in exactly the same position, probably so. I felt the ABs should have won the scrum and used their skill and patience to keep the ball alive for the next 4 or 5 minutes and either scored a try or forced the Lions into conceding a penalty. In anybody's book squealing for a penalty when misfortune or fate had so much influence is not as delicious as earning a penalty like demolishing an opponents scrum or playing phase ball so quickly you gain an offside.

[jargan83]

Finally saw the incident and have to say it's a penalty all day. If the ball simply ricocheted into the Lions player you mount a case for accidental offside and rule a scrum, but the Lions player actually catches the ball before dropping it in a performance worthy of an academy award.

Poite lost his mind in overturning his own decision.

Also why was no advantage played? I think it was Lienert-Brown picks the ball up and almost runs away to score a try.

[Sheikh]

Also why was no advantage played? I think it was Lienert-Brown picks the ball up and almost runs away to score a try.

I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous answer (post 181)

[jargan83]

if he thought Read had infringed at the contest in the air why did he blow a penalty for the All Blacks before checking with the TMO?

[Ralto]

What isn't clear is whether the opposition was prevented from gaining an advantage...
I do have an opinion on the vehemence which new Zealanders apply to their bullying of officials when they don't rule in favour of the all Blacks.

The fact that the Lions player caught it did not allow any advantage to accrue.
Don't like anyone bullying anyone, can't fault Keiran Read, as he was the only one talking to the ref,and he took what was a very poor decision with grace.

[yungfen]

Seems like Read was just about the only Kiwi that did though Ralto!
I will say it again all them ABs fans criticising the referee should have a look back at the refereeing of Craig Joubert at the RWC final back in 2011 where he could easily have awarded the French at least 2 or 3 kickable penalties (Near the end of the second half) for infringements that he had penalised the French for in the first half of that game.
Just be good sports and accept the refereeing decision with dignity as there always has been and always will be questionable refereeing decisions.

ABs unhappy fans, Watch this analysis of the refereeing of the RWC Final in 2011to back up the statement at the top.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7C6bTHyC0U

[Sheikh]

if he thought Read had infringed at the contest in the air why did he blow a penalty for the All Blacks before checking with the TMO?

Ah, have re-watched the incident and I missed the ref's arm initially and therefore misunderstood the ref's instruction to the TMO.

Ralto is correct that as the Lions player caught the ball, advantage should not be played, although in order for Owen to be 'accidentally offside' it must be considered by the ref that the ball hit Owen's arms, not that he caught and dropped the ball (which he clearly did). I understand Read's frustration with the ref.

Although, you'd have thought that an attacking scrum to the All Blacks would have allowed them the chance to try and draw another penalty, kick a drop-goal, etc.

[shasta]

Ralto is correct that as the Lions player caught the ball, advantage should not be played, although in order for Owen to be 'accidentally offside' it must be considered by the ref that the ball hit Owen's arms, not that he caught and dropped the ball (which he clearly did). I understand Read's frustration with the ref.

My initial reaction on game day was "who's decision was that........greatest howler of all time"

After reading Ecky's quote of the applicable laws,I could at least see Poite's reasoning. I didn't agree with him, but was OK with the interpretation. After seeing the incident with audio subtitles last night on Kick n Chase, I'm back to greatest howler of all time, having had my question answered as to who's decision it was.

For those who didn't see it. Initial Ref's call was penalty AB's. TMO Ayoub agreed. Ten AR Graces chimes in uninvited and says it's accidental and Poite, seemingly looking for any reason not to end a Lions Tour on his call, grasps the straw.

This surely can't be an acceptable process. Plenty of people are asking who's running the show, calling for the TMOs to be put back in their box. But how the hell does an AR overrule both the referee and the TMO??

[The InnFORCEr]

More interesting from last night K&C, is the fact that K Read was offside at the re start (in front of the ball) and he is the one who makes the challenge which leads to the situation. Perhaps if he was on side, he would not have made the challenge and there would have been no issue, or if every offence is to be adjudicated, it should have been Lions scrum on half way. Either way K Read was in the thick of it.

[SinBin]

.....After seeing the incident with audio subtitles last night on Kick n Chase, I'm back to greatest howler of all time, having had my question answered as to who's decision it was. For those who didn't see it. Initial Ref's call was penalty AB's. TMO Ayoub agreed. Ten AR Graces chimes in uninvited and says it's accidental and Poite, seemingly looking for any reason not to end a Lions Tour on his call, grasps the straw. This surely can't be an acceptable process. Plenty of people are asking who's running the show, calling for the TMOs to be put back in their box. But how the hell does an AR overrule both the referee and the TMO??

Yeah, that was pretty damning

[yungfen]

Keep blaming the referee guys, maybe some magic will happen and you will be able to go back in time and get that penalty awarded so that you can potentially win the game if the kick is successful and feel good about yourselves and brag about being the best.

If we all looked at all decisions that referees can/should make you would never stop.
It was a very interesting tour with some great rugby played by two very very good teams.

[shasta]

Keep blaming the referee guys, maybe some magic will happen and you will be able to go back in time and get that penalty awarded so that you can potentially win the game if the kick is successful and feel good about yourselves and brag about being the best.

If we all looked at all decisions that referees can/should make you would never stop.
It was a very interesting tour with some great rugby played by two very very good teams.

OK, Pal. Take the high moral ground all you want. But consider that most of the posts on that decision, are not from AB supporters, AFAIK. For me, I said I didn't agree but was OK with the ref's interpretation. What I'm questioning - big time - is the process, or rather lack of one, in making the decision. If nobody questions that, then these Ref/TMO/AR clusterf@cks will continue. Don't think anyone wants that.

[sittingbison]

....What I'm questioning - big time - is the process, or rather lack of one, in making the decision. If nobody questions that, then these Ref/TMO/AR clusterf@cks will continue....

agreed shasta, and for what its worth the Force usually gets stiffed by said clusterfrak of process not by a referee-only decision (except maybe for The Hoff ) ....which we then complain about

Goes right back to George Ayoubs' howler in season 1, and last with the TFN "try" the other night when it was the Rebels who took it back over the try line, and who then knocked it on into a surprised TFNs lap...the decision - after about 20 slomo replays - TFN knock on lol.

The ARs are either asleep at the wheel and miss a whole series of forward passes like Marika the other night, or making decisions for Sir

The TMO is either completely useless, or making decisions for Sir

Nobody offers Sir a suggestion/observation and lets him get on with it