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Thread: Western Force being pushed into secret ARU negotiations

  1. #31
    Immortal jargan83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    That quote was from RUPA president Xenos (or is is Xenox, this article has made me unsure) It proposed 5 NZ teams, 5 Aussie Teams 4 SA teams and the newcomers in a one-conference round robin.

    It would work quite nicely if the Saffers want to ditch their two teams. Everybody plays everybody else once, home and away, finals qualification through ladder position and nothing else.

    Would suck for the Tahs or Brums, who would actually need to win some games to play finals, but everybody else should be sweet with it.
    To paraphrase you from last week, how often do the views of the Union line up with the views of Management

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  2. #32
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    I wasn't correcting that, I just thought you'd misinterpreted the structure of the 16 team comp he proposed.

    I think that would go a long way to reengaging Melbourne and Perth, simply because neither of them would become a toxic wasteland.

    It might NOT do anything to reengage Qld and NSW, simply because they will have their laziness and nepotism exposed by playing every other team in the comp, likely to finish below mid table.

    and your point is well taken, this will be an idea that is rejected simply upon the basis of who suggested it.

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    C'mon the

  3. #33
    Immortal jargan83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    I wasn't correcting that, I just thought you'd misinterpreted the structure of the 16 team comp he proposed.

    I think that would go a long way to reengaging Melbourne and Perth, simply because neither of them would become a toxic wasteland.

    It might NOT do anything to reengage Qld and NSW, simply because they will have their laziness and nepotism exposed by playing every other team in the comp, likely to finish below mid table.

    and your point is well taken, this will be an idea that is rejected simply upon the basis of who suggested it.
    Nah I got who said the statement but I don't think the view of the Australian players union has mattered much to SANZAAR or the ARU throughout this saga.

    The ARU is going to push ahead with it's plan to move to 4 sides regardless of what anyone else thinks.

    I wonder what the next magic plan for the ARU will be when the fans don't re-engage after a side is culled? Go back to 3 teams? 2 teams?

    At this rate Australia will end up as a minnow nation on the Rugby landscape in 10 years. The strategic plan to grow the game that Pulver announced last year isn't worth the paper it was printed on.

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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jargan83 View Post
    The ARU is going to push ahead with it's plan to move to 4 sides regardless of what anyone else thinks.

    I wonder what the next magic plan for the ARU will be when the fans don't re-engage after a side is culled? Go back to 3 teams? 2 teams?
    At the risk of being classified as an archetype parochial West Australian, I still suspect that fundamentally this is about winding the rugby union clock back to the "glorious early 2000s", when rugby union in Australia was the nearly exclusive preserve of the NSWRU and QRU, and the Brumbies in Canberra were tolerated because they were in the NSW back-yard anyway.

    What are the odds that if the Force is culled for the 2018 SR season, then the Rebels will find themselves in the same uncertain position before the start of the new broadcast deal in 2021?

    From Clyne's point of view, it probably is all about the money - but hey, he's a banker after all.

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  5. #35
    Immortal Contributor The InnFORCEr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FingerTips View Post
    From Clyne's point of view, it probably is all about the money - but hey, he's a wanker after all.
    Fixed

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  6. #36
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jargan83 View Post
    Nah I got who said the statement but I don't think the view of Anybody who has said anything in any forum has mattered much to SANZAAR or the ARU throughout this saga.
    Fixed that statement for you


    Quote Originally Posted by jargan83 View Post
    I wonder what the next magic plan for the ARU will be when the fans don't re-engage after a side is culled? Go back to 3 teams? 2 teams?
    What happens if Waratahs membership increases by 3.2% though. That would be a clear indication that they have been successful in re-engaging fans. At least it would to them, and the bargain basement cost of that (approximately 600) ticket increase would be the roughly 9,000 regular ticket holders in the West.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jargan83 View Post
    Nah I got who said the statement but I don't think the view of the Australian players union has mattered much to SANZAAR or the ARU throughout this saga.

    The ARU is going to push ahead with it's plan to move to 4 sides regardless of what anyone else thinks.

    I wonder what the next magic plan for the ARU will be when the fans don't re-engage after a side is culled? Go back to 3 teams? 2 teams?

    At this rate Australia will end up as a minnow nation on the Rugby landscape in 10 years. The strategic plan to grow the game that Pulver announced last year isn't worth the paper it was printed on.
    Part of the ARUs fait acompli presentation to the RugbyWA board had a scenario where the Force shut down next year and they expect the Rebels to fold within 2 years. The Rebels are a dead franchise walking whether they are cut now or in 2 years. They have lost $33 million already and are expected to announce a loss of about $6 million this year. How the ARU still back the retention of the Rebels is criminal to the future of Australian Rugby and has to go down in Australian sports history as one of the biggest fuckups ever seen. How there is not an inquiry or any opposition into the ARUs actions regarding adding and now retaining Melbourne is disgraceful. By the end of 2017, the Rebels will have stripped Australian Rugby and its future of $39 million just to prop it up. What is the tradeoff? The Victorian government is going to build a building for them and may return $14 million back to rugby through hosting matches not even agreed to yet and thos games are not even scheduled to happen for 4 to 8 years. Thats anywhere up to another $36 million of losses before the ARU even gets a sniff of any return on its investment.

    But hey, RugbyWA will take one for the "team". Not.

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  8. #38
    Veteran chibi's Avatar
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    Was discussing this with another forum member after the meeting today, what would be the follow-on effect if the Rebels were allowed to say "bugger the salary cap" and Cox was given the free reign to buy anyone he likes, Mourad-style?

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  9. #39
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    I would imagine the same as last time, when Mitchell et al were given that freedom - a massive debt, which then gets dropped back onto the ARU when the owner exercises his get-out clause. It was one of the more stupid and lazy decisions made by the ARU when setting up the Rebels, in among a whole bunch of poorly thought through decisions. Still hard to believe they doubled down with Cox.

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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyS View Post
    I would imagine the same as last time, when Mitchell et al were given that freedom - a massive debt, which then gets dropped back onto the ARU when the owner exercises his get-out clause. It was one of the more stupid and lazy decisions made by the ARU when setting up the Rebels, in among a whole bunch of poorly thought through decisions. Still hard to believe they doubled down with Cox.
    That would tie in with an interview I saw the other night before the Pommy Final where Cipriani jokes about a "ridiculously high paid holiday" in Melbourne.

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  11. #41
    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    Yes TG! His mates described it as a well-paid gap year!!

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  12. #42
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    ...and he behaved accordingly

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  13. #43
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    And Australian Rugby is still paying for this "well paid gap year".

    I am just appalled that there is no inquiry into the ARUs dealings. They have been driving Australian Rugby off a cliff for 8 years now, yet they continue on, unopposed, free to continue adding insult to injury, using public money to make some asshole in Melbourne richer, ignoring club rugby, using public money for ridiculous things like placing bets on the 2015 RWC final and flying family members to the World Cup and buying $100 000 worth of handbags for them, no foresight to restructure the professional game to deliver cost savings to benefit ALL Australian Rugby participants, continuing to support 4 levels of administration in NSW alone (ARU, Waratahs, NSWRU, SSRU), they have also canned the JGS pathways for 15 - 17 yr olds, still a complete lack of FTA presence pushing us further into obscurity, the ridiculous amounts former employees like Jon O'Neill were able to walk away with after his tenure as CEO, the ridiculous amount spent on ARU administration alone, the fact that they have over 240 employees who do god knows what at head office yet the Super Rugby clubs and their pathways are slashed to the bone, a lack of sponsors for International Test Matches, the constant speculation which is directly killing off the professional game in a manner never before seen in Australian Sport and the fact that ARU incompetence has made us the domestic sports laughing stock.
    And thats just off the top of my head. God knows what other stupidity they are up to.

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  14. #44
    Champion MI5_Dog's Avatar
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    Here's an idea
    Why not just stop paying money to the Rebels.
    IF they are such a financial mess then they'll die a death on their own without any need for forking out cash that can be used on other things.
    Problem solved. 4 teams and the all the ARU had to do was literally nothing.

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  15. #45
    Immortal jargan83's Avatar
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    Because it would depend on what the contract between the ARU and the Rebels says.

    Obviously there are provisions for ARU funding in the "sale" contract as I would have thought if you're happy to buy a franchise you accept the liabilities that go along with it.

    Is anyone going to seriously tell me that if the Melbourne Rebels hypothetically posted a profit of $4 million this year that Andrew Cox would share any of it with the ARU? (unless again stipulated by the contract).

    Would a document like that be available through a Freedom of Information request?

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