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Thread: Fight could be over before it starts

  1. #31
    Veteran BLR's Avatar
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    It's interesting that over on G&GR it seems the Rebels fans are finally realising the danger their in. Instead of picking at the bones of the Force players for their next years squad and saying how Cox once said he wouldn't sell the team despite at the same time naming sale prices, they now seem to be panicked. Maybe the veil of 'Good old Coxy will save us' has been lifted?

    ....too little too late to plead for safety as fans?

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  2. #32
    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    If we don't have an NRC, many of these late bloomers will never come back to Australia can anybody think of an instance where that has happened? Perhaps somebody who is playing for Italy, or somebody who went to France?
    Luke McLean - 90 caps for Italy

    I've also looked up Australians playing in the French Top 14 who are uncapped by Australia:

    Blair Connor - 2 seasons with the Reds ('09-'10), 147 appearances for Bordeaux since.
    Poutasi Luafutu - 3 seasons with the Reds ('08-10), now 7 years with Brive.
    Chris Tuatara-Morrison - 2 seasons with us ('13-'14), now 3 years with Brive.
    Alfie Mafi - Waratahs ('08), Brumbies ('09-'10), us ('11-'13) with 53 appearances in total, now 3 years with Brive (60+ appearances).
    Afusipa Taumoepeau - 3 seasons with the Brumbies ('08-'10) and 1 with the Rebels ('11) with 25 appearances, 44 appearances with Pau since.
    John Ulugia - 7 seasons with the Brumbies and Waratahs, now with Clermont Auvergne.
    Ben Hand - Waratahs and Rams ('07), Brumbies ('09-'12), now 5 years with Grenoble.
    Henry Vanderglas - 7 appearance in 4 years with the Brumbies ('09-12), now with Grenoble.
    Curtis Browning - 4 years at the Reds ('13-'16), now with Lyon.
    David Feao - 2 years in the NRC (Brisbane '14, Eagles '15), now with La Rochelle.
    Brock James - Reds ('05), us ('06), then 289 appearances in 10 years at Clermont Auvergne (scored nearly 2,500 points), now doing similar things with La Rochelle. Probably the biggest miss for Australia.
    Paul Alo-Emile - us and the Rebels, now 2 years with Stade Francais.
    Hugh Pyle - 4 years with the rebels, now 3 years with Stade Francais.
    Tala Gray - 2 appearances for the Waratahs, now 2 years with Toulouse.

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  3. #33
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    My head was all about Luke McLean and Brock James. Both never really got much of a chance I super rugby but went overseas, pretty much never to look back and both proven to be marquee players over there.

    Looking over your last, many of the stories are the same.

    Then there's guys like browning and pyle who were definitely on the wallabies radar, but still took the cash, and guys like Alfie mafi who are over there for understandable reasons.

    That's without even considering Japan and great Britain

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    C'mon the

  4. #34
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    Sanzaar might not cut teams at all

    SANZAAR’s plans to cut teams from the 2018 version of Vodacom Super Rugby could fall flat on its face, meaning the Southern Kings and Toyota Cheetahs may be given a reprieve.

    That is, however, if the Australian Super Rugby sides win a court case that the Melbourne Rebels have launched in Australia against the governing body to save them from being axed from the competition.

    While SA Rugby still has to announce which two sides will be cut from the 2018 version of the competition, general consensus seems to be that it is the Kings and Cheetahs that will face the chop, prompting emotion and anger in those regions.

    But the financial realities in SA Rugby mean that the national body may have no option but to cut teams and has publicly said so.

    The problem comes now with the Rebels, who are privately owned, this week launched a court case against the Australian Rugby Union (ARU) to stop the governing body from “buying back their license from them.”

    With the Western Force also threatening legal action and the Cheetahs locally reported to have sought legal advice from a senior advocate, the 2018 cut is far from a done deal.

    Sanzaar’s governing body will meet in Tokyo on Thursday in a “heads of state meeting” where the progress in the Super Rugby cuts are meant to be discussed, but Supersport.com’s information is that unless the cuts are approved in both Australia and South Africa, Sanzaar will be forced to continue with the 18-team competition until 2021.

    South Africa has already approved the cuts in SA Rugby meetings and a franchise committee is now meeting to decide by means of a weighting system which two sides will fall away, but the war in Australian rugby is far greater, with both the Rebels and Force resisting any change in the current system.

    The ARU specifically named both sides as the two in danger, while absolving the Brumbies from a cut when it held a press conference last month but both sides have rallied to save their franchises, with the Force obtaining major backing from the Western Australian government in recent times.

    Both teams feel they have “an outright case to stay in the competition”, according to The Australian newspaper, with the Force reportedly asking for an injunction as well.

    With the two Australian states getting involved – and the Victoria government now reportedly offering the same level of financial support for the Rebels as the Western Australian government, the ARU sits with a problem in trying to sort the matter out.

    But if they do lose the court case, or are unable to come to solve the impasse, all bets are off and Sanzaar will keep the same tournament structure for the foreseeable future, even though in their own words it has proved wildly unpopular.

    https://www.supersport.com/rugby/sup...t_teams_at_all

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  5. #35
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    Dont get me wrong I think the NRC is great, just think it needs to align more with the super franchises. The reason the Spirit have been so good is because over here it does align. Great for WA but not so great for the rest of rugby.

    If it aligns with the super franchises, you will also build better and more support for it.

    Maybe there needs to be three tiers - Super, super reserves (NRC), national youth (u21s).

    And as for Jones, he's a moron but no one else has more power than he does. Remember he helped take down a PM. Get him as the mouth piece and the stakeholders, govs, corporates, will fall in line.

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  6. #36
    Player LMSC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exile View Post
    I could pick apart your whole argument but I will stay with this one.

    Players are going overseas for one reason only, Money. None of the franchises can compete with UK, French or Japanese contracts. Even with ARU Top Ups. So we send the bad players overseas and not allow the good ones. Exactly how will that work - with out the ARU going back to court?

    I doubt a Draft System will work in Australia. Lets Say Israel Foloau gets nominated for the Draft and the Western Force picks him - Izzy says no way, Im not going to Perth, I will take one of the 6 offers to get a Mil a year to play Rugby in France. Hooper gets picked by the Reds - says no way if I cant stay in Sydney, I will go play in London.

    Until they create a culture within the Wallabies where everyone wants to strive to play for the Green and Gold Jersey. and do so for 100 caps. Players will continue to head to Europe or Japan. and we cant do shit about it
    Which is why you need to increase the salary cap by at least 50% to keep them.

    And not to be picky but that's not how a draft works. Izzy & Hooper wouldn't nominate for a draft, they are already with franchises. They'd be free agents if uncontracted, just like in the AFL/NRL.

    A draft ensures young talent is shared across the country and not only equalises the Australian franchises but ensures better development of youth. A draft also will put in place a massive amount of development resources. Local clubs will get funds that encourages them to invest in their youth - rather than by a new Kiwi front rower. There's a reason it works.

    And you can't talk about money, and in the same comment mention culture. It's either one or the other. Culture don't pay the bills. 2003 was the peak, but it wasn't culture - it was money (how many ex-NRL's who chased the cash played in the final....)

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  7. #37
    Champion Tonkar's Avatar
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    Please correct me if I am wrong but I do remember reading something that all Australian super rugby players has to be eligible for selection for the wallabies or they could not sign with a club.. George Gregan come to mind he wanted stay playing SR but not International games and the ARU said he could not be signed.. How many others have had the same thing happen.. Some players know their limits and just want SR rugby

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  8. #38
    Apprentice JPR's Avatar
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    This above post about SANZAAR might not cut any teams,was an interesting article in supersport.com.
    A comment created by a women in UK, she is looking from the SA conference point of view,
    but still can be the structure for the future in 2021,is on the lines that David Wessells (Western Force)
    put forward about 3 x 6 team system that could solve many of the current obstacles.
    These are her words;
    I am a fan of 18 teams, though I seem to be the only one. However, it needs to be 3 divisions of 6 teams. At the moment it is far too easy for the Stormer's to finish top and the Sharks to be the best loser. There isn't any real competition in the two SA divisions. Put them all in 1 division with 10 local derbies, 3 games out of 6 against the Aussies (& Sunwolves), 3 games out of 6 against the kiwis (and Jaguares). The top 3 and best overall runner-up get home quarter-finals, so NZ will probably have 2 home 1/4 finals and be happy. Aus keep all their teams and solve the legal dispute. Finally the Stormer's play the Lions and Sharks twice a year to increase standards.

    At the moment, all the SA games until the end of July are meaningless. The Lions will top their group ahead of the Sharks, while the Stormer's will top their group. The Sharks v Stormer's game at the end of this month should be one of the highlights of the SA Super Rugby season. Instead it is a meaningless exercise in futility. We need genuine fixtures with something on the line to play for.
    This needs to be looked at before a lot of money that is needed for our sport is given to the legals.

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    Last edited by JPR; 09-05-17 at 20:31. Reason: Improve reading
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  9. #39
    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    My head was all about Luke McLean and Brock James. Both never really got much of a chance I super rugby but went overseas, pretty much never to look back and both proven to be marquee players over there.

    Looking over your last, many of the stories are the same.

    Then there's guys like browning and pyle who were definitely on the wallabies radar, but still took the cash, and guys like Alfie mafi who are over there for understandable reasons.

    That's without even considering Japan and great Britain
    Yeah, McLean and James are real misses for Australian rugby. I wonder whether Blair Connor was, too, as he seems to have had a successful career at one of the bigger Top 14 sides.

    I'd add Tala Gray and PAE to Browning and Pyle as guys I'd have liked to have kept around a season or two longer to see if they could have made it.

    I could look into British clubs, but I'm slightly afraid of just how many names I could find. Certainly players like Keiran who was approaching Wallaby selection but offered a truck-load of cash to head north.

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  10. #40
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    That woman has been reading my post history.

    I've been saying 3x6 since they announced 18 teams.

    Interesting how supersport characterise the legal battle, making it appear as though the rebels are the aggressors and the force are looking at following suit.

    I wonder if that's deliberate or is it as a result of biased reporting and the only people who know the real story got it from here.

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    C'mon the

  11. #41
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    I believe they changed that several years ago.

    When they realised players were quite happy to chase the $ with Wallaby selection not the draw card they thought it was.

    Remember it's the physically toughest sport in the world. Careers don't last long and usually end with life long physical impacts. Players cannot be blamed for wanting to secure their futures. And OS comps, like in Europe & Japan ect are far less taxing physically.

    Which is why the salary cap needs to be drastically increased.

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  12. #42
    Veteran Contributor Exile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMSC View Post
    Which is why you need to increase the salary cap by at least 50% to keep them.
    Any idea where that money will come from?

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  13. #43
    Senior Player Contributor WF2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exile View Post
    Any idea where that money will come from?
    Same place my kids think all money comes from......thin air!

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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by WF2006 View Post
    Same place my kids think all money comes from......thin air!
    Needs to happen, so they need to find it. Otherwise, no point even trying to fix the problem.

    If you built it, they will come....

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  15. #45
    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    Salary cap? You mean the system that allows Wallaby top-ups of about 30% to the Tahs, Reds and Brumbies and only about 10% max to the Force and Rebels?

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