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Thread: Fight could be over before it starts

  1. #16
    Player LMSC's Avatar
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    IF it has always the best option to reduce 5 to 4 (which we don't buy into), the most sensible, reasonable and appropriate option was always for the Rebels to go. But this is not the best option. 5 sides should remain - but none in "private/for profit" ownership.

    The Force may have been the ARU & the broadcasters choice to get the axe but it was, and will never happen. You cannot call a bluff on 10's of thousands of people, and expect them to buy the turd lines you throw at them. Apart from wins on the field, the Force are the strongest franchise in the country. We've only ever needed a $3mil bailout - which came about because of the worst economic downturn the state has ever seen (we couldn't get sponsors). Crowds, memberships, sponsor dollars, grassroots registration/participation numbers, media coverage, corporate support, government support - while the Force aren't No.1 in all those catagories, combining them make the Force the best franchise.

    What's broken with the game is the management. All Australian players should be running around in Australian Super teams. The only ones we allow to go OS should be the ones that aren't good enough. Get the best players back in Australia.

    Sack/scrap the board and form an ARU commission with voting rights based on each associations registration numbers, create an Australian Super Rugby Draft, reward franchises with recruitment incentives based on the strength of their state/grassroots/junior participation, introduce recruitment/draft payments (eg: Nedlands gets $ when one of their players is signed by a Super franchise), enforce community work requirements into Super contracts, overhaul the salary cap and increase it by 50%, scrap the NRC and create a national youth/reserves competition limited to the five super franchises only, ensure each territory has an academy program with national uniform funding and management structures, pull rugby out of the Murdoch/Foxtel anal cavity and get it on FTV, actually get the ARU to start working with state & federal governments, create a new ARU constitution with an Australia First direction to ensure every decision made is in the best interests of the nation game and not international competitions or obligations.

    And recruit Alan Jones to spearhead the reform process.

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  2. #17
    Veteran Contributor fulvio sammut's Avatar
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    You blew it all with that last line ...

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  3. #18
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fulvio sammut View Post
    You blew it all with that last line ...
    That and the one about scrapping the NRC, I think that comp has a genuine place in the development of our elite pathway. It might not be perfect, and it might compete with the under 20s for talent (which doesn't have to happen BTW) but it is the place for the "not quite good enough" at 20 to hone their craft and become good enough at 24.

    Look at Fardy, he didn't cut it at the Force when he was young (part of the reason might have been the environment, but part of it was also his maturity and growth) but at the Brumbies a few years later he set the world on fire.

    Look at DHP, he really wasn't up to standard during his first stint at the Force, he needed a few seasons in France to grow/develop confidence/get hungry whatever, and he comes back, virtually instantly into the Wallabies.

    If we don't have an NRC, many of these late bloomers will never come back to Australia can anybody think of an instance where that has happened? Perhaps somebody who is playing for Italy, or somebody who went to France?

    The scheduling clashes and other bullshit can be worked out, we need to have a solid and competitive pathway to grow players from "pretty good kids" into "world beating men"

    The Kiwis do it, through an ordered and controlled structuring of all of their elite pathways, looking at only one metric How can we make this bloke better for the AllBlacks.

    Until we can implement something at least as good as that, preferably better, we haven't got a chance of competing with anybody on the international stage.

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  4. #19
    Immortal Contributor The InnFORCEr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post

    If we don't have an NRC, many of these late bloomers will never come back to Australia can anybody think of an instance where that has happened? Perhaps somebody who is playing for Italy, or somebody who went to France?
    Zac Holmes

    Luke Ball

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  5. #20
    Immortal Contributor jono's Avatar
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    or - implement the same governance processes that the NZRU have used to produce the most dominant dynasty in Union to date.
    (one that also shows no signs of stopping anytime soon - as much as Eddie Jones will tell you otherwise)

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  6. #21
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The InnFORCEr View Post
    Zac Holmes

    Luke Ball
    Yup, and those weren't even the ones in my head!

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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    Yup, and those weren't even the ones in my head!
    Billy MEAKES

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  8. #23
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    or - implement the same governance processes that the NZRU have used to produce the most dominant dynasty in Union to date.
    (one that also shows no signs of stopping anytime soon - as much as Eddie Jones will tell you otherwise)
    I think it's actually the governance structures that I want Aussie Rugby to mimic, if we try to mimic the playing style, we will never catch up. By the time we have the style down, they will have moved on and they'll know exactly how to beat us, because they were doing that ten years ago.

    We need to come up with a style that can influence the game ten years from now and implement a national no-holds-barred structure which seeks to develop that culture from the youngest participants right through to the captain of the Wallabies.

    That will never happen as long as the board of Aussie Rugby is controlled by a bunch of spineless twats, hand picked by the Shite Shield and GPS.

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  9. #24
    Immortal Contributor jono's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    I think it's actually the governance structures that I want Aussie Rugby to mimic, if we try to mimic the playing style, we will never catch up. By the time we have the style down, they will have moved on and they'll know exactly how to beat us, because they were doing that ten years ago.

    We need to come up with a style that can influence the game ten years from now and implement a national no-holds-barred structure which seeks to develop that culture from the youngest participants right through to the captain of the Wallabies.

    That will never happen as long as the board of Aussie Rugby is controlled by a bunch of spineless twats, hand picked by the Shite Shield and GPS.
    Yep that basically sums up what I've been thinking for a while now.
    No matter what we do in the short term the kiwis are at least a generation ahead of us in player development.
    Now it might not take us that long to catch up if we can change the gameplay. but we need to be developing holistic strategies from (say) u12s and up at a national level
    - build 7 phases in attack
    - be able to sucessfully defend 7+ phases
    - disrupt mauls
    - swing from touchline to touchline in 2-4 phases

    a centralised framework for player/franchise/union development (in that order or it'll never work) needs to be brought in ASAP. The old guard either need to get on board with that idea or resign (f**k off, but we're a PG forum) and get out of the way.

    The traditional approach and the decisions made based on history have gotten us to where we are at the moment - up shit creek - we need to try something new, and stick with the overarching concepts for the long term, even if the short term is still as painful as things are now.
    A new process will never be 100% successful immediately, it's when you tweak and adjust based on performance and stakeholder feedback that things get better in the long term & set up the next generation.

    (wait, when did I start talking federal politics?!?!)

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  10. #25
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    Here is a thought.....why don't the Force merge with the Sunwolves???....think about it!

    The Sunwolves don't have the talent....or likely to have for a long time.
    But they have money and TV rights attraction.
    Players could have a pathway to Wallabies or Japan national teams.
    Five games in each of Perth and Japan.
    Team based in Perth with training facilities and reserves playing in local comp.
    Really a Perth team with links to Japan.

    Will it work????? Nah probably not....but it's a thought.

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  11. #26
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Nope, I think I'd see any choice of the financial black hole that is MRRU over the Force as a betrayal of WA rugby.

    I think the Japanese would actually be OK with it, since they already move their home games around, perhaps merge the SunWolves with the Brumbies?

    Tokyo Brumbies (stay with me, there's a plan to this) would work. ACT rugby retains its pathway, Rebels don't sue the ARU, Force don't sue the ARU, ARU refuses to fund the largesse of the privately owned Rebels from the moment they are reprieved, once the Rebels enter insolvency (I'd reckon maybe fifteen minutes into game one) the Sunwolves can be reinstated and even play some of their games in Melbourne, Some of the Japanese fans will stay with the Brumbies, we have closer links with Asia, a stronger Australian team and the Brumbies can simply increase their number of games in Canberra to play in front of massive 7,000 strong crowds since they have been bolstered by the travelling japanese fans who continue to support them.

    Long term everybody's happy.

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  12. #27
    Veteran Contributor Exile's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMSC View Post
    IF

    What's broken with the game is the management. All Australian players should be running around in Australian Super teams. The only ones we allow to go OS should be the ones that aren't good enough. Get the best players back in Australia.
    I could pick apart your whole argument but I will stay with this one.

    Players are going overseas for one reason only, Money. None of the franchises can compete with UK, French or Japanese contracts. Even with ARU Top Ups. So we send the bad players overseas and not allow the good ones. Exactly how will that work - with out the ARU going back to court?

    I doubt a Draft System will work in Australia. Lets Say Israel Foloau gets nominated for the Draft and the Western Force picks him - Izzy says no way, Im not going to Perth, I will take one of the 6 offers to get a Mil a year to play Rugby in France. Hooper gets picked by the Reds - says no way if I cant stay in Sydney, I will go play in London.

    Until they create a culture within the Wallabies where everyone wants to strive to play for the Green and Gold Jersey. and do so for 100 caps. Players will continue to head to Europe or Japan. and we cant do shit about it

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  13. #28
    Champion MI5_Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exile View Post
    Players will continue to head to Europe or Japan. and we cant do shit about it
    We can, but it requires removing the salary cap altogether and letting the team with the most money win.
    Of course that means selling off all the teams to private owners

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  14. #29
    Senior Player Contributor WF2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    Until we played the sharks. I thought a lot of the heart escaped in that game. I hope it returns for Argentina
    Very much agreed.

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  15. #30
    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exile View Post
    Until they create a culture within the Wallabies where everyone wants to strive to play for the Green and Gold Jersey. and do so for 100 caps. Players will continue to head to Europe or Japan. and we cant do shit about it
    Well we can do shit about it, but that shit starts at under 10s and consistently works to value the gold jersey above everything else, works kids towards being a better wallaby and reintroduces the awe and respect that Wallabies are held in.

    It doesn't help that some of our most revered Wallaby icons go on record to publicly lambast everything about modern aussie rugby.

    Now some of them might have a point, but, if they do, it gets lost in the sea of whingeing about "how great I was" and how "these young whipper snappers would never survive in my day"

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