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Thread: Who are you calling unsustainable Mr Clyne?

  1. #16
    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewM View Post
    In table 1 on the bottom line it says "Total Grants by State" but should it say "Total Grants by Team"?
    Good pick up - yes it should. I'll adjust it in the master doc.

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    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
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    A couple of thoughts for the piece:

    Early in the piece you mention the Force receiving $4.8m in unexpected money, but Table 1 only shows $3.7m. If the $4.8m figure comes from Clyne and is incorrect, you could point this out.

    Can you break-out the 'Grants' number into 'Grants' and 'Unexpected expenditure' in Table 1? The Rebels' costs are $20m, plus the $13m unexpected expenditure, whereas the Force's costs have the unexpected expenditure included in the grant money. It might make the argument easier to follow if the unexpected expenditure is quoted separately.

    Are the 'Team' costs in Table 1 the Wallaby top-up costs? The Wallaby costs are elsewhere, and could be the direct Wallaby costs (travel, coaching, accommodation, training, etc), but Wallaby top-up costs would be included in SR team grants.

    The unexpected expenditure for the Rebels and Force ($13m + $3.7m) is only $16.7m, 60% of Clyne's $28m. Any idea where the rest of that money is hidden? For instance, do we know if the Reds loans were repaid or just written off? *

    At one point you mention $91m for operating Super Rugby for the last three years, but Table 1 suggests this is $99m ($28m + $29m + $42m).

    -----------------------
    ETA:
    * Some of Clyne's missing $11.3m in unexpected expenditure might be the $2.6m extra funding to Cox & the Rebels.

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    Well Done Alison, and if you need some cash to help with your outlay, we are all willing to chip in.

    I dont think that any of this is a surprise is it? Thanks for setting it all out Alison.

    Perhaps we need a cliff notes version, and possibly hit up Nick Taylor to see if he can get it published?

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  4. #19
    Champion valzc's Avatar
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    The amounts handed to the Rebels will reflect costs too I imagine when they had Cipriani, O'Connor & Beale brought in, and we all know how well that ended.

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    Senior Player Macattack's Avatar
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    Great job Alison, thanks for all your hard work 😀

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    Player Leo86's Avatar
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    Wow, Alison you are an absolute legend, the sea of blue could not thank you enough.

    When we get through this i hope you with everyone else who has assisted and fought will know the contribution you have made.

    Well done

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    Immortal GIGS20's Avatar
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    Having slept on this one, my question is
    Where have the bailouts to the Tahs been hidden? They don't appear anywhere on your table, but I'm sure they have received at least as much in bailout money as Qld (which equals more than the Force) Was this one of the motivations for separating the Tahs from the NSWRU? THe bailouts could then be identified as funding for the "rugby heartland"

    You've obviously got a better handle on the figures than me, so I'll leave it to you to find the actual answer.

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    C'mon the

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    Champion MI5_Dog's Avatar
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    As part of the Alliance Deal the Force had approx $3mill of loans wiped off. Is this included in the 'unexpected money' in table 1?
    If so I suggest it should be tabled seperately as it has been for the other teams.

    Also I would like to see a summary of figures somewhere in the article so I don't have to go looking in the tables and do all the math myself. (Lazy that I am) This should include the 'loans' that have not been repaid.

    Total given to team 2011 to 2016 ....

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    Champion MI5_Dog's Avatar
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    Also
    Before handing the article over to any other web site to 'publish' I would suggest removing any digs at other teams
    the numbers will speak for themselves and we want these guys on our side.

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    Senior Player andrewM's Avatar
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    Curious that the financial records seem to raise as many questions as they answer..

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  11. #26
    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    Thanks for all your comments guys - very much appreciated.

    I'll work through them all tonight and see if I can weave them in.

    In answer to your question about the Tahs, GIGS, I can't see any reference to any other assistance besides the Super Rugby and NSWRU allocations so anything else they got must be buried elsewhere. As I'm not an accountant I don't know where to go to find anything other than the obvious.

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  12. #27
    Legend Contributor Alison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MI5_Dog View Post
    Also
    Before handing the article over to any other web site to 'publish' I would suggest removing any digs at other teams
    the numbers will speak for themselves and we want these guys on our side.
    Yes, good point. Need to leave my blue-tinted glasses in their box!

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  13. #28
    Champion Contributor sandgroperrugby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIGS20 View Post
    Having slept on this one, my question is
    Where have the bailouts to the Tahs been hidden? They don't appear anywhere on your table, but I'm sure they have received at least as much in bailout money as Qld (which equals more than the Force) Was this one of the motivations for separating the Tahs from the NSWRU? THe bailouts could then be identified as funding for the "rugby heartland"

    You've obviously got a better handle on the figures than me, so I'll leave it to you to find the actual answer.
    My understanding was that the tahs and NSW got into trouble before the reporting period of Alison's analysis. Wasn't it early 2000's that got bailouts.

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    Great work Alison, amazing effort.

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    Veteran Sheikh's Avatar
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    Another thought on the 2016 Force Grant numbers. The Grant numbers for the Reds, Waratahs & Brumbies increase from 2016 from 2015 by nearly $2m per team, but the Force's Grant goes up by $3.4m, including the sale of the IP & licence.

    Are we sure the Unexpected Expenditure is $3.7m? If so, the Force's normal Grant money, which for 2014 & 2015 was running similar to the Reds, Tahs & Brumbies, was for 2016 only $3.66m ($2m less than the Reds, Tahs & Brumbies).

    Conversely, if the Unexpected Expenditure was $4.8m, the grant was therefore only $2.56m, $3m less than the Reds, Tahs & Brumbies.

    Actually, I've found a figure of $4.8m, in Note 26 on Table 4, which says the ARU employees renumeration increase in 2016 includes $4,787,000 paid to the Western Force staff and players. This is hardly an unexpected cost, but is it double-counted? What does the Grant money in Table 1 cover if not staff and players?

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